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Alenating new players....


DarthMaero's Avatar


DarthMaero
11.11.2012 , 05:03 AM | #1
I want to bring up a problem i have with the state of the community in the game, specifically dealing with flash points and group finder. It seems that as soon as group finder was introduced two things immediately happened: 1) it became the norm for a flashpoint run to be a speed run skipping everything just to get to the end; and 2) we all stopped talking to each other. Now at first I thought this was awesome! I was almost full rakata on one toon and partial tionese on the other and all I really wanted out of endgame flash points was the black hole commendations and the gear tokens that dropped of the final boss. This men i would get what i wanted much faster and i didn't need to wast time trying to get a group together. Now I'm and imp, all the toons i have leveled to 50 so far have been imps, but i decided to level a Jedi just recently and have been doing some flash points and have realized that alot of the time the same thing happens in regular flash points as hard mod flash points, tho to a lesser extent, but it was not till i ran Taral V for the first time that i realized that this attitude will just turn new players off of doing flash points. The experiance of being the only person in a group who has never run the flashpoint while everyone else is running past everything with no explanation as to what the hell was going on was just not any fun at all.

The only solution to this problem i see, (short of this rant having the miraculous effect of changing the entire SWToR comunity ), would be perhaps to have an option in the group finder if we want a speed run or not and group with like minded players. Sometimes I would not mind fighting all the bosses in a flash point, other times I just want to get my dailies done.

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
11.11.2012 , 05:07 AM | #2
Group finder became the norm because of the BH comms, and since people who want them are grinding stuff to get raidgear, you will see people want do finish those flahspoints asap. It is only a natural consequence of the Bioware design.

ps. You can still try to put together a group with like-minded people and then GF queue the whole team at once.
"Their strength became my own. Their minds became my own. All flesh is my flesh. None move, save I will it. This is the rule the Sith were promised, and I have made it real!"
- From the codex of Karness Muur

Mcadamsl's Avatar


Mcadamsl
11.11.2012 , 06:37 AM | #3
And this is why at Launch Bioware did not want to have a Group finder, WoW was the same way, with the way that you can buy raid gear with comms from doing flash points it becomes the only reason most people both to run the flashpoint. and on my geared out 50s I only really do the same thing, only running flashpoints for comms once a day

uniz's Avatar


uniz
11.11.2012 , 08:07 AM | #4
i see your point op and agree that such runs are not always enjoyable ( well at least for me they are not) there are some solutions that can be put into future hm and normal fp mechanics to eliminate or deter skipping. as far as racing through the fp i am not sure what can be done.

it is difficult to type and run to keep up at the same time so it is only natural not to say too much while doing so. perhaps a in game voice chat would help if done properly and with all of the ops in group finder i think it would be a good idea anyways. an other mmo i played had one put in years ago and it works very well. actually it had fewer problems than a few peoples ts and vents that i have been on. an other option would be to make them shorter with less content so it can be completed in a hour when the group is of proper level and appropriate gear for them.

skipping can be done by having each boss be a "bonus type" part of the quest where each boss has one or two coms and at the end when the group either disbands or quits you can turn it in and get the rewarded coms for what you have done up to. much like how some of the bonus quests are done now. you can give addition one or two for actual completion of the zone. perhaps having trash actually having good drops also might help.

the fp hms now and for some time have been nothing more than a race for the bh coms. it is more of a ends than a means. also the way some players skip content some are just plain races of stupidity. however f2p people will have to buy passes to do these. just think how many will be pissed having to race through one and not enjoy their paid experience. they wont buy many more nor want to sub. i haven't done a non guild lower level fp after group finder came out so i cant comment on those.

yes op i can see your point.

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
11.11.2012 , 08:09 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Mcadamsl View Post
And this is why at Launch Bioware did not want to have a Group finder, WoW was the same way, with the way that you can buy raid gear with comms from doing flash points it becomes the only reason most people both to run the flashpoint. and on my geared out 50s I only really do the same thing, only running flashpoints for comms once a day
The problem is the system to grind for gear, not group finder in itself. But this cannot be changed anymore. Its the way the whole game has been designed.
"Their strength became my own. Their minds became my own. All flesh is my flesh. None move, save I will it. This is the rule the Sith were promised, and I have made it real!"
- From the codex of Karness Muur

Elear's Avatar


Elear
11.11.2012 , 08:56 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Karkais View Post
The problem is the system to grind for gear, not group finder in itself. But this cannot be changed anymore. Its the way the whole game has been designed.
Not really, gearing system and endgame comms from group finder are here to increase pool of players willing to use it. Without rewards, majority of players wouldn't waste their time with random pugs. Before group finder people were propeled by daily/weekly quests, after by GF rewards.
Group finder is main cause for apathetic players that only want to finish FP. Before, they had to make some effort, talk to people, and actually be friendly so other people want to group with them again. Now, all people have to do is press 2 buttons, and not be an *** to avoid getting on ignore lists.

But then, group finder did improve playing eperience(we could argue if it couldn't be done other way, like global LFG channel, but it's pointless), so it's not like it was bad move. Separate queue for 'normal' runs proposition is given quite often, and always countered by fact that waiting times would make all people forced to use only one of them anyway. Personally, I think option to joing both or only one of queues couldn't hurt. If 'normal'(slow) queue wouldn't be getting many pops, it would be because of people, and there is almost nothing BW can do about it, but at least there would be an option.

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
11.11.2012 , 01:02 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Elear View Post
Not really, gearing system and endgame comms from group finder are here to increase pool of players willing to use it. Without rewards, majority of players wouldn't waste their time with random pugs. Before group finder people were propeled by daily/weekly quests, after by GF rewards.
Group finder is main cause for apathetic players that only want to finish FP.
Those people already exist. They would just get a group the old-fashioned way and behave the same without group finder.

If you give people a goal, then there are those who want to reach it more than others. In a sandbox game however, people invent their own goals.
"Their strength became my own. Their minds became my own. All flesh is my flesh. None move, save I will it. This is the rule the Sith were promised, and I have made it real!"
- From the codex of Karness Muur

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
11.12.2012 , 02:14 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthMaero View Post
I want to bring up a problem i have with the state of the community in the game, specifically dealing with flash points and group finder. It seems that as soon as group finder was introduced two things immediately happened: 1) it became the norm for a flashpoint run to be a speed run skipping everything just to get to the end; and 2) we all stopped talking to each other. Now at first I thought this was awesome! I was almost full rakata on one toon and partial tionese on the other and all I really wanted out of endgame flash points was the black hole commendations and the gear tokens that dropped of the final boss. This men i would get what i wanted much faster and i didn't need to wast time trying to get a group together. Now I'm and imp, all the toons i have leveled to 50 so far have been imps, but i decided to level a Jedi just recently and have been doing some flash points and have realized that alot of the time the same thing happens in regular flash points as hard mod flash points, tho to a lesser extent, but it was not till i ran Taral V for the first time that i realized that this attitude will just turn new players off of doing flash points. The experiance of being the only person in a group who has never run the flashpoint while everyone else is running past everything with no explanation as to what the hell was going on was just not any fun at all.

The only solution to this problem i see, (short of this rant having the miraculous effect of changing the entire SWToR comunity ), would be perhaps to have an option in the group finder if we want a speed run or not and group with like minded players. Sometimes I would not mind fighting all the bosses in a flash point, other times I just want to get my dailies done.

I would like to point out that a little dialogue solves a lot of problems. Those new players should point out right at the start that they are new to the specific flashpoint HM and want to kill all the bosses. At this point it is the group's responsibility to help this new player - provided he has brought the bare minimums (in terms of gear and knowledge of class) necessary for the said flashpoint. The option to kill everything can be discussed, if it's rejected even so it is for the benefit of the new player to continue. Remember that most FP drops are only minor upgrades. The biggest and most efficent upgrades for new 50's are from BH Vendors. Getting Black Hole commendations as fast as possible in this regard helps new players as well.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
Tomb of Freedon Nadd (EU)
Member of Catalyst

sumuser's Avatar


sumuser
11.12.2012 , 04:03 AM | #9
I understand what the OP is saying... however, there is not a quick fix to the problem. The good news however is that there is a "work around": join a active PvE guild that places a emphasis on game play, not loot and comms. No, these guilds are not easy to find, but once you do the player will be able to learn, understand, and enjoy each FP experience.
Jedi Covenant
Apotheosis | lvl 50 | Bounty Hunter
Utnapishtim | lvl 50 | Sith Warrior

GrandMike's Avatar


GrandMike
11.12.2012 , 05:37 AM | #10
Its a very badly designed endgame.

Solution: none any more, they would have to scrap it and redo it completely.

But it seems they havent learned from past and their own experiences.