Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

this "original story" might not even mess with the current EU

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
this "original story" might not even mess with the current EU

spookysage's Avatar


spookysage
11.08.2012 , 10:42 AM | #121
I think they'll pick and choose what parts of EU remain canon, certainly throw in a few small references here and there to fill in some backstory. It wouldn't have to be anything of Alderaan-shattering importance to the plot - for example, Timothy Zahn named Coruscant. Most likely, a lot of things will just be left up in the air. Easier to just never mention the Yuuzhan Vong than to randomly work in a line about gosh what a good thing we blew those guys all up before they got to be a big problem, right?

Or maybe I'm just hoping Disney will go with retcons of omission rather than straight up DC Comics New 52 superdickery. Last thing I need is to find out my bounty hunter's entire species never existed...

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.08.2012 , 11:41 AM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
except we know for a fact those fans will STILL buy new books and storys made in the POST ROTJ EU. We know this for a fact. Just like when the Prequels came out those same fans raged but STILL ended up buying all the merchendise. It never hurt the sales at all.

We also see this with comics as well. Do you know how many times the DC and Marvel universes has been reset? Every time there is some initial rebelion and then people accept it and buy them at the same rate. Some times they buy more some times they buy less but it always seems to even out in the end.
Yes but as Captain_Zone pointed out, and I didn't realise this, if stuff is labeled N-Canon it would be taken of the shelves and those sales would be lost regardless of the demand

Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Ok, so you're saying that they're going to throw that money away. As to your "no one cares" argument, that 20 - 50 mill proves otherwise. People do care. If you write them off, then that's your choice. Just don't presume that LucasArts and Disney will do the same. All I proposed was a way to keep all the fans satisfied, if not happy. You and Jarjar were the ones who decided to make a huge deal out of it and show your contempt for the minority of the fans. Would 3 full universes be THAT much of an affront to you? Sheesh. Like I said before, we'll just have to wait and see how Leland Chee fits the new stuff in with the old, or if he decides to do something different. I put forth an idea. My point was that if they used your idea, it would piss off fans, even if in the minority, and they would lose millions in revenue. I get that you don't care for post-RotJ. That doesn't mean "no one does".

If this had happened back in the Eisner days, I would say that you would most probably be 100% correct. These, however, are not the Eisner days. lol
Just want to address some of the points you made here that I didn't before because it was rushed. FIrstly I have no contempt for the minority EU fans at all, and my blatant 'no one cares' point was made because people weren't taking the time to read the full argument so I put in a simpler form. Of course its a hyperbole, and not true, its just a summary of what I was saying. That these EU fans are the minority, I have no contempt for them, I simply realise Disney has little care for them, they wan't to appease the main fan base, not dance around the EU.

As for you alternative, I have to say I don't like it at all, I really don't. Alternative universes would simply render the star wars story null and void, because in a sense its not the true story, just a version I like. I see it as a slippery slope, once Disney does it, who else will follow? The canon system will become more and more obsolete, the amount of alternate universes will escalate, and if they don't, the current ones will grow, until their are entirely different versions of the star wars story, when their should only be one. Alternate universes should be what they are now, I bit of fun. This would lead to a Marvel-scale predicament, with rubbish about alternate universes inside alternate universes. In an extreme way, it would be the death of the Star Wars I fell in love with, I'm willing to sacrifice some EU to maintain what we already have.

Disney, and George Lucas, would probably (I'm not saying they would) agree with me here. I know Lucas had little respect for post-ROTJ, such as the Mara Jade and Palpatine arcs, and I understand why - they were messing with the characters he had created and envisaged, and messing with his story. To them the movies take precedence, and if the EU gets in the way, it should step aside.

The solution? Of course sending a bulldozer through the EU isn't the solution. Disney realise that despite these fans being a small minority, they can be very loud, they don't want bad press, and they want to make as much revenue as possible. I highly doubt however they will put much thought into keeping the post-ROTJ universe in tact, simply because its so small and rather messy. The safest bet would be to bypass the good stuff, of course what is good is a matter of opinion. I get the feeling that the Thrawn Trilogy is loved by all post-ROTJ fans, and the best of the bunch. Someone on another thread also pointed out that the Kyle Katarn arc, that encompasses comics and games will also be affected, and they are also much loved. But the NJO order, is disliked by many, and from what I can gather is farfetched in places and a little messy. I wouldn't put in past disney if they wiped this area clean, and I wouldn't disagree with them. The only solution I see is if they carve out a section of the NJO era for their film, render that N-Canon and the N-Canon the other material it will effect. And fans will just have to deal with that.

But this still doesn't solve the problem of revenue does it? Comics will be pulled off the shelves never to be seen again, and bad press will be stirred up by angry fans. But this can be solved. For won't the films open up an entirely new playground for EU writers to dive into? An opportunity to start again, to makes things better? Won't the market be flooded not only with new EU to replace the old, but new toys, games, novels etcera etcera - the income will be massive, and will totally make up for their losses and more.

As you can see this move will solve a lot of problems. But will it placate the fans? I don't know. I get the feeling you are one of these fans, whether you like NJO or not I can't say. But what would you think, and anyone else who reads post-NJO about new EU, replacing the old? And perhaps even the death (and rebirth) of the NJO era?

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
11.08.2012 , 03:16 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Yes but as Captain_Zone pointed out, and I didn't realise this, if stuff is labeled N-Canon it would be taken of the shelves and those sales would be lost regardless of the demand



Just want to address some of the points you made here that I didn't before because it was rushed. FIrstly I have no contempt for the minority EU fans at all, and my blatant 'no one cares' point was made because people weren't taking the time to read the full argument so I put in a simpler form. Of course its a hyperbole, and not true, its just a summary of what I was saying. That these EU fans are the minority, I have no contempt for them, I simply realise Disney has little care for them, they wan't to appease the main fan base, not dance around the EU.

As for you alternative, I have to say I don't like it at all, I really don't. Alternative universes would simply render the star wars story null and void, because in a sense its not the true story, just a version I like. I see it as a slippery slope, once Disney does it, who else will follow? The canon system will become more and more obsolete, the amount of alternate universes will escalate, and if they don't, the current ones will grow, until their are entirely different versions of the star wars story, when their should only be one. Alternate universes should be what they are now, I bit of fun. This would lead to a Marvel-scale predicament, with rubbish about alternate universes inside alternate universes. In an extreme way, it would be the death of the Star Wars I fell in love with, I'm willing to sacrifice some EU to maintain what we already have.

Disney, and George Lucas, would probably (I'm not saying they would) agree with me here. I know Lucas had little respect for post-ROTJ, such as the Mara Jade and Palpatine arcs, and I understand why - they were messing with the characters he had created and envisaged, and messing with his story. To them the movies take precedence, and if the EU gets in the way, it should step aside.

The solution? Of course sending a bulldozer through the EU isn't the solution. Disney realise that despite these fans being a small minority, they can be very loud, they don't want bad press, and they want to make as much revenue as possible. I highly doubt however they will put much thought into keeping the post-ROTJ universe in tact, simply because its so small and rather messy. The safest bet would be to bypass the good stuff, of course what is good is a matter of opinion. I get the feeling that the Thrawn Trilogy is loved by all post-ROTJ fans, and the best of the bunch. Someone on another thread also pointed out that the Kyle Katarn arc, that encompasses comics and games will also be affected, and they are also much loved. But the NJO order, is disliked by many, and from what I can gather is farfetched in places and a little messy. I wouldn't put in past disney if they wiped this area clean, and I wouldn't disagree with them. The only solution I see is if they carve out a section of the NJO era for their film, render that N-Canon and the N-Canon the other material it will effect. And fans will just have to deal with that.

But this still doesn't solve the problem of revenue does it? Comics will be pulled off the shelves never to be seen again, and bad press will be stirred up by angry fans. But this can be solved. For won't the films open up an entirely new playground for EU writers to dive into? An opportunity to start again, to makes things better? Won't the market be flooded not only with new EU to replace the old, but new toys, games, novels etcera etcera - the income will be massive, and will totally make up for their losses and more.

As you can see this move will solve a lot of problems. But will it placate the fans? I don't know. I get the feeling you are one of these fans, whether you like NJO or not I can't say. But what would you think, and anyone else who reads post-NJO about new EU, replacing the old? And perhaps even the death (and rebirth) of the NJO era?
I agree that the later ExU sucks big hairy donkey... you know. However, most of the Expanded Universe fans love the early post-RotJ series of novels and comics. I also proposed the idea you have up there to leave the good stuff intact as an alternate to the three universes idea. To expand on what I would like to see them keep: The main story of the Thrawn Trilogy, Bounty Hunter Wars, X-Wing (ALL of the X-Wing series), Truce at Bakura, Dark Empire (I, II, and Empire's End), and a few other good stories. The later stuff is what most people dislike, and the whole "Starwars Ball Z" feel of the "Ultimate Power Luke", etc. can get blasted for all I care.... along with all of the crap from Karen Traviss. She's a good military fiction author, but she sucks horribly at Star Wars.

The bottom line is that it's up to Disney and Leland Chee, unless Disney gets rid of him. I have a feeling they'll keep him around, though. He spent quite a few years tapdancing through the George Lucas minefield and managed to keep everything pretty much intact. It's just a matter of "wait and see" as to what happens to the post-RotJ ExU, right now.

No matter what happens, look on the bright side. IF they go with the three universes, at least it's not as bad as in comic books. 52 universes in DC. Hundreds of universes in Marvel now, since they adopted DC's "multiverse" idea.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.08.2012 , 03:34 PM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
I agree that the later ExU sucks big hairy donkey... you know. However, most of the Expanded Universe fans love the early post-RotJ series of novels and comics... The later stuff is what most people dislike, and the whole "Starwars Ball Z" feel of the "Ultimate Power Luke", etc. can get blasted for all I care.... along with all of the crap from Karen Traviss. She's a good military fiction author, but she sucks horribly at Star Wars.
Seems you verified what I suspected NJO sucks So i think the solution is clear - say the NJO era didn't exist, that would give Disney and Lucasfilm the perfect playground to work with. And their actions would not affect the previous good stuff that you mentioned alone. And seeing as support for the NJO era is minimal, they can get away with pretending it doesn't exist and carving out their own chunk of space to work in. Not sure about the whole timeline thing, but this may lead to the death of the whole Darth Caedus/Lumiya arc - I don't know.

Quote:
No matter what happens, look on the bright side. IF they go with the three universes, at least it's not as bad as in comic books. 52 universes in DC. Hundreds of universes in Marvel now, since they adopted DC's "multiverse" idea.
Slippery slope, 3 will become 52+ before you can say Yuuzhan Vong...

At a push i could except an alternate NJO era - but labeled as non-canon (like starwars infinities) Thus in a canon-sense that era could be erased and the films accompanied by fresh EU can take its place.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
11.08.2012 , 04:02 PM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Seems you verified what I suspected NJO sucks So i think the solution is clear - say the NJO era didn't exist, that would give Disney and Lucasfilm the perfect playground to work with. And their actions would not affect the previous good stuff that you mentioned alone. And seeing as support for the NJO era is minimal, they can get away with pretending it doesn't exist and carving out their own chunk of space to work in. Not sure about the whole timeline thing, but this may lead to the death of the whole Darth Caedus/Lumiya arc - I don't know.

Slippery slope, 3 will become 52+ before you can say Yuuzhan Vong...

At a push i could except an alternate NJO era - but labeled as non-canon (like starwars infinities) Thus in a canon-sense that era could be erased and the films accompanied by fresh EU can take its place.
I could live with the NJO and everything after being voided. No problem here. The only problem would still be a revenue crunch, but a much smaller revenue crunch that Disney would probably be willing to eat.

As far as the slippery slope, DC actually managed to drag themselves back from literally thousands of universes before Crisis on Infinite Earths. Then they had just one universe for quite a few years, which had its continuity rebooted a couple times. Now they have "The 52", each with its own continuity and cast of characters. They've made great strides in keeping everything manageable. Star Wars has always been leery of going down that road, and they've managed to keep the "two universes" they already have overlapping as much as possible. I would never suggest infinite realities like in comics or Star Trek. But one branching universe wouldn't kill the franchise. Remember that Leland Chee is a master of keeping everything packaged fairly neatly.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.08.2012 , 04:13 PM | #126
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
I could live with the NJO and everything after being voided. No problem here. The only problem would still be a revenue crunch, but a much smaller revenue crunch that Disney would probably be willing to eat.

As far as the slippery slope, DC actually managed to drag themselves back from literally thousands of universes before Crisis on Infinite Earths. Then they had just one universe for quite a few years, which had its continuity rebooted a couple times. Now they have "The 52", each with its own continuity and cast of characters. They've made great strides in keeping everything manageable. Star Wars has always been leery of going down that road, and they've managed to keep the "two universes" they already have overlapping as much as possible. I would never suggest infinite realities like in comics or Star Trek. But one branching universe wouldn't kill the franchise. Remember that Leland Chee is a master of keeping everything packaged fairly neatly.
I see it is 1 universe really. It all fits in fine. And thats what it should be. The opening reel is 'a long time ago in a galaxy far far away...' it shouldn't be 'a long time ago in galaxy 28 far far away... (all footage in this film is non-canon). But hey, whatever. The main thing is, the loss of revenue from cutting NJO can become profit by replacing it with new and better material.

jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
11.08.2012 , 08:38 PM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Yes but as Captain_Zone pointed out, and I didn't realise this, if stuff is labeled N-Canon it would be taken of the shelves and those sales would be lost regardless of the demand



J
yeah that never happened. He is making that up. Comic book stores send comics back to publishers when they don't sell them after a month or so. They usually keep 1 or 2 copies in their collection section.

You can still buy every Star Wars book or Comic out there. They do stop printing them when sales slow down for obvious reasons. But they don't recall them for not being canon. Perfect example

Prophets of the Darkside is considered non canon

http://www.amazon.com/Prophets-Dark-...+the+Dark+Side

look at that still on sale at Amazon.


Go ahead name a comic or a book and I guarantee you can find it.

This is another case of Captain zone not knowing what the hell he is talking about and just making stuff up.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.09.2012 , 11:58 AM | #128
http://www.vulture.com/2012/11/star-...ts-writer.html

Someone posted this article on another thread recently, thought you might find it interesting. Its about a possible writer for the Disney films - one who knows about EU.

sstanks's Avatar


sstanks
11.09.2012 , 05:12 PM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
http://www.vulture.com/2012/11/star-...ts-writer.html

Someone posted this article on another thread recently, thought you might find it interesting. Its about a possible writer for the Disney films - one who knows about EU.
file not found