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An in-depth look at: The Mandalorian Wars

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
An in-depth look at: The Mandalorian Wars

mefit's Avatar


mefit
11.08.2012 , 11:56 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
In the end, following the Mandalorian Wars, Revan only saved the Republic from his own mess. He wasn't a good guy, he was essentially like Bengel Morr. Kreia's theory about Revan never falling and taking on the Mantle of the Dark Lord as a sacrifice is nonsense. The Jedi Order didn't need to to turn to the darkside to defeat the Sith Emperor or the Mandalorians.
*When Revan was a Jedi Pre Mandalorian War , he was a Good Person
*When Revan went to fight the Mandalorians , was because he let his emotions control him as he could not bare to watch people being slaughtered and do nothing
*When Revan made the plans to destroy Billions to end the War , he did it for the cause of saving more .
^But as he went to War his actions became the Actions of his enemies and there for morally was losing himself to the darkside
*When he came back from finding the Emperor , he decided he was the only one who could save the Republic from him.
^ Ego

So he Saved the Republic from the Mandalorians with the help of his Generals Malek and Meetra ........etc etc
Then he destroyed the Republic in the cause of saving it from the Emperor .........EGO
Then he while not himself and back to being a Jedi killed Malek , but he didn't really clean up his own mess ! It was Meetra that finished off Revan and Malek's Sith Empire , not Revan .
It was Meetra that gave the Republic some peace time and restored the Jedi , while Revan selfishly went on to look for his past .

Revan has always been more Darksided , while his friend and Loyal companion Meetra has always been of the Light . In all and all , I feel DarkJedi/Sithlord Darth Revan is the Real Revan . He is largely the Old Republic version of Anakin without the Chosen One part !

When I think of Kreia's theory about Revan, I feel it is totally true . He stayed the Course of a Person who thought he was doing what was best , Kinda like Anakin in Ep.3 who believed by killing the Jedi and the Separatists thought he was Protecting the Republic and only through him it could be done .
But Revan did alot of Evil deeds while as Darth Revan including cutting the Jaw off his Best friend and apprentice Malek . Allowing Meetra to take the Fall for his Plan taht killed Billions was pretty evil thing to do to your Loyal Friend as well .
Darth Mefit
Sith Marauder
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MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.09.2012 , 07:00 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by mefit View Post
*When Revan was a Jedi Pre Mandalorian War , he was a Good Person
*When Revan went to fight the Mandalorians , was because he let his emotions control him as he could not bare to watch people being slaughtered and do nothing
*When Revan made the plans to destroy Billions to end the War , he did it for the cause of saving more .
^But as he went to War his actions became the Actions of his enemies and there for morally was losing himself to the darkside
*When he came back from finding the Emperor , he decided he was the only one who could save the Republic from him.
^ Ego

So he Saved the Republic from the Mandalorians with the help of his Generals Malek and Meetra ........etc etc
Then he destroyed the Republic in the cause of saving it from the Emperor .........EGO
Then he while not himself and back to being a Jedi killed Malek , but he didn't really clean up his own mess ! It was Meetra that finished off Revan and Malek's Sith Empire , not Revan .
It was Meetra that gave the Republic some peace time and restored the Jedi , while Revan selfishly went on to look for his past .

Revan has always been more Darksided , while his friend and Loyal companion Meetra has always been of the Light . In all and all , I feel DarkJedi/Sithlord Darth Revan is the Real Revan . He is largely the Old Republic version of Anakin without the Chosen One part !

When I think of Kreia's theory about Revan, I feel it is totally true . He stayed the Course of a Person who thought he was doing what was best , Kinda like Anakin in Ep.3 who believed by killing the Jedi and the Separatists thought he was Protecting the Republic and only through him it could be done .
But Revan did alot of Evil deeds while as Darth Revan including cutting the Jaw off his Best friend and apprentice Malek . Allowing Meetra to take the Fall for his Plan taht killed Billions was pretty evil thing to do to your Loyal Friend as well .
You make a good point, but I feel there is a bit of speculation here.

Aurbere made the good point that the Jedi could have entered the war as advisors. I feel like this would have worked very nicely. There's just no reason that the Jedi had to abstain 100%. You see what I'm saying? I'm not saying that the Jedi should have entered the war as Revan did, but they could have helped a little bit.

And you argue that Revan wouldn't have fallen if he stayed with the council's wishes. But what if the council HAD aided the Republic, then there's not a chance that Revan would have fallen. This holds true even if the Jedi were only helping as advisors. The Jedi made joining the war outside of their law, and this made Revan more willing to break other laws. Put yourself in his shoes. If you've already broken one rule, then aren't you WAY more likely to break a few more?

I feel that the Jedi Council was PARTIALLY correct to abstain, because they felt the Sith Empire looming in the distance.

But what would have happened if the Jedi had entered the war? And I'm talking about even the Jedi Masters themselves. If they'd been on the frontlines then they could have aided men like Revan, who were making bad choices. The Sith Empire was not an immediate threat, although the Jedi felt that they were, and they abstained for that reason. In truth, the Jedi/Republic were in no current danger of the Empire. Accordingly, the Jedi should have entered the war (or perhaps just provide light support and advisory as Aurbere said).

steaktrooper's Avatar


steaktrooper
11.09.2012 , 10:00 AM | #33
We obviously have loyal supporters of their respective views, and I don't think this is going anywhere anytime soon. I call this one a draw between whether or not the council was wrong or right
Lembar Romdoro Agenros Cavteff
Sith Covenant / Jedi Covenant @ The Harbinger

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.09.2012 , 10:10 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by steaktrooper View Post
We obviously have loyal supporters of their respective views, and I don't think this is going anywhere anytime soon. I call this one a draw between whether or not the council was wrong or right
Correct. Like I said, everyone has their own opinions as to what should have been done and are unlikely to change their views. This is a very controversial topic and I wanted to put the reasons behind the Jedi Order's decisions in the spotlight.
Added Chapter 35 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

gurumoicano's Avatar


gurumoicano
11.09.2012 , 10:16 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
You make a good point, but I feel there is a bit of speculation here.

...
But what would have happened if the Jedi had entered the war? And I'm talking about even the Jedi Masters themselves. If they'd been on the frontlines then they could have aided men like Revan, who were making bad choices. The Sith Empire was not an immediate threat, although the Jedi felt that they were, and they abstained for that reason. In truth, the Jedi/Republic were in no current danger of the Empire. Accordingly, the Jedi should have entered the war (or perhaps just provide light support and advisory as Aurbere said).
Jedi Masters use to leave a Jedi follow his own path. As for Ulic Qel Droma and Exar Kun (how easy they could be stopped in the beginning, when they showed a strange "passion" for the Sith?), so happened later, with Revan, Malak, Anakin and others. This is a very libertarian behaviour, and I can admire it in a Jedi Master, that feels something is burning in his dear and adored padawan, sees him do the wrong choices, and in spite of this, he leaves him free to make mistakes, to choice his path. For me It's libertarian, but now so wise...
If Jedi Masters led Mandalorian wars, with their wisdom and prudence, problably many atrocities never could not happen. Problably.
But Jedi Masters choose to wait and examine what happened because they felt a hidden danger, The Sith Empire, and were scared by the risk that some Jedi could fall with the war. A self-fulfilling prophecy?

seekerofpower's Avatar


seekerofpower
11.09.2012 , 10:28 AM | #36
I believe that if the Jedi Order had allowed the Jedi to join the Mandalorian Wars, that the Jedi Civil War never would have happened.
The Mandalorian Wars would have ended quicker and Revan and Malak would never have needed to resort to the extreme measures they took as a result of a lack of Jedi forces.
"Definition: 'Love' is making a shot to the knees of a target 120 kilometers away using an Aratech sniper rifle with a tri-light scope. Statement: This definition, I am told, is subject to interpretation. Obviously, love is a matter of odds. Not many meatbags could make such a shot, and fewer would derive love from it. Yet for me, love is knowing your target, putting them in your targeting reticle, and together, achieving a singular purpose, against statistically long odds."

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.09.2012 , 10:59 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by steaktrooper View Post
We obviously have loyal supporters of their respective views, and I don't think this is going anywhere anytime soon. I call this one a draw between whether or not the council was wrong or right
NO!! WE MUST KEEP DEBATING!!

lol Just kidding.

Seriously though, I don't think there's any harm in a continued debate. It's not like we're getting pissed or anything (at least I'm not).

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.09.2012 , 11:04 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
NO!! WE MUST KEEP DEBATING!!

lol Just kidding.

Seriously though, I don't think there's any harm in a continued debate. It's not like we're getting pissed or anything (at least I'm not).
True lol. I love a good debate, but I hate when things get really heated. That's one of the things I was afraid of when I made this thread. This particular topic is almost as heated as Revan so I was concerned over potentially heated arguments.

Fortunately, we haven't had such misfortune yet.
Added Chapter 35 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.09.2012 , 11:06 AM | #39
The Emperor's plan would've worked regardless, that's all that really mattered.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.09.2012 , 11:10 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
True lol. I love a good debate, but I hate when things get really heated. That's one of the things I was afraid of when I made this thread. This particular topic is almost as heated as Revan so I was concerned over potentially heated arguments.

Fortunately, we haven't had such misfortune yet.
Yeah, I doubt it is as heated as Revan. That's about as controversial as it gets.

But I feel that this particular topic is a very interesting one because it (unlike other topics) isn't dictated by canon. We don't know for SURE what would have happened if the Jedi had entered the war, and this means that there is room for opinions. There is no absolute right or absolute wrong, and that makes this topic interesting.