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this "original story" might not even mess with the current EU

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
this "original story" might not even mess with the current EU

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.07.2012 , 01:33 PM | #111
Quote: Originally Posted by Inzuher View Post
I would really like to see where those numbers come from because so far I have no reason to believe them. If the EU didn't sell they wouldn't produce stuff to it.
Looks like I'm going to have to repeat myself here.

Quote:
Ok, so I probably fabricated that figure a bit. However its not completely untrue. I remember someone posted some how much money the franchise makes out of anything - managed to find it

As you can see book sales (which I believe includes comics, basically represents the EU) make up only 7% of revenue. While movie sales (including DVD's) makes up 30%. Seeing as the post-ROTJ EU only makes up a tiny fraction of that 7% we can assume that around 1% or less, probably less, love or like them.
Also, please read my above post for a counter argument. The gist of the argument is, (you guessed it lol): no one cares

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
11.07.2012 , 02:14 PM | #112
Quote: Originally Posted by Inzuher View Post
I would really like to see where those numbers come from because so far I have no reason to believe them. If the EU didn't sell they wouldn't produce stuff to it.

eitherway, my main concern is that since a lot of the events and characters is tied together in the EU. Change one wrong thing and you might effect several storylines. for instance lets say they make the Vong wars uncanon. Well alright they were rather boring anyways. however that would effect the character development of Jacen Solo meaning no Darth Caedus = the 8 Legacy of the Force books are uncanon, ups!

The same thing would happen if they should decide to kill some key character, lets for instance say they kill of Mara Jade before she originally die at the hands of Jacen. Well, first of all Ben Skywalker might not be burn, secondly Jacen would have to sacrifice someone else to become Darth Caedus = story is uncanon.

Then if that happened the Fate of the Jedi novels would also be uncanon since they are affected by the effects in Legacy of the Force etc.

As I said one stupide move might destroy a great many storyline and THEREFORE Disney need to be careful.


However, if they manage to do that there might come much good out of them buying Lucasfilms.
Dude, you agree with him and he wants to start an argument with you. Now you know what I had to put up with until I put him on Ignore.

Seriously, the post-RotJ ExU Novels, comics, and games make LucasArts about 20 - 50 mill per year. Post-RotJ accounts for around 5 - 20 mill. They wouldn't jeopardize that kind of revenue by declaring all of it N-Canon. There is a reason why declaring EVERYTHING in an entire storyline that takes place over several novels or comics as N-Canon is a last resort. When such a thing occurs, all prints of those novels and comics that aren't already in circulation are pulled from shelves in a recall. Leland Chee takes everything about the retcon into account before he makes that decision, and tries to find ways to declare some elements S-Canon before anything gets pulled. Novels and Comics supplemented the income of George and his family. Now they'll supplement Disney's bottom line. The recalls MIGHT have laxed since I saw it last, but as of 2009, that was how the procedure went. I watched my local comic book shop owner pull dozens of issues off the wall and box them up to send back to the warehouse, thanks to an email they got from Dark Horse, which LL had sent to them. When I asked him about it, he said they'd been recalled because it wasn't in Star Wars anymore. That was before I learned more about Canon and how seriously LucasArts takes it. At the time, I didn't think much of it because it didn't affect the Knights of the Old Republic series I was collecting.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Nydus's Avatar


Nydus
11.07.2012 , 02:20 PM | #113
I personally haven't really read any SW Books. I'm more aware of the Extended Universe than having "experienced it".

With the exception of some of the LucasArts games...

- Arcada
The Arcada Legacy (Ebon Hawk)
Ord'os (Lvl.55 Sorcerer), Naresa (Lvl.53 Operative), Jagrafess (Lvl.19 Marauder)
Nydus (Lvl.54 Shadow), Toclafane (Lvl.27 Guardian)

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.07.2012 , 02:26 PM | #114
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Dude, you agree with him and he wants to start an argument with you. Now you know what I had to put up with until I put him on Ignore.

Seriously, the post-RotJ ExU Novels, comics, and games make LucasArts about 20 - 50 mill per year. Post-RotJ accounts for around 5 - 20 mill. They wouldn't jeopardize that kind of revenue by declaring all of it N-Canon. There is a reason why declaring EVERYTHING in an entire storyline that takes place over several novels or comics as N-Canon is a last resort. When such a thing occurs, all prints of those novels and comics that aren't already in circulation are pulled from shelves in a recall. Leland Chee takes everything about the retcon into account before he makes that decision, and tries to find ways to declare some elements S-Canon before anything gets pulled. Novels and Comics supplemented the income of George and his family. Now they'll supplement Disney's bottom line. The recalls MIGHT have laxed since I saw it last, but as of 2009, that was how the procedure went. I watched my local comic book shop owner pull dozens of issues off the wall and box them up to send back to the warehouse, thanks to an email they got from Dark Horse, which LL had sent to them. When I asked him about it, he said they'd been recalled because it wasn't in Star Wars anymore. That was before I learned more about Canon and how seriously LucasArts takes it. At the time, I didn't think much of it because it didn't affect the Knights of the Old Republic series I was collecting.
For the record, that stat he used was mine. So I prefer if you address my arguments rather than overlook them. Admittedly I didn't post the link to my source (it didn't copy across) so here it is

As you can see, you are correct. It does make around 20-50 million a year. But in comparison to the rest of the revenue, it is minuscule. Only 7%. And as I have already said, post-ROTJ is a fraction of that, and as a I have already said the effect the films would have (as I have already said, 4 years max) would be a fraction of that. So all in all, Disney have very little to lose (probably less than 1% of there revenue) and with have no qualms about labelling stuff non-canon. So, for the third (possible fourth, and hopefully final) time: no one cares

EDIT: lets prove JarJarloves wrong, who seems to think you don't listen.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.07.2012 , 02:28 PM | #115
Quote: Originally Posted by Nydus View Post
I personally haven't really read any SW Books. I'm more aware of the Extended Universe than having "experienced it".

With the exception of some of the LucasArts games...

- Arcada
And you represent a large majority of the Star Wars fanbase. I haven't much either, only a little OT, but no post-ROTJ. And I consider myself a bit of a star wars fanatic.

jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
11.07.2012 , 04:17 PM | #116
Quote: Originally Posted by Inzuher View Post
I would really like to see where those numbers come from because so far I have no reason to believe them. If the EU didn't sell they wouldn't produce stuff to it.

eitherway, my main concern is that since a lot of the events and characters is tied together in the EU. Change one wrong thing and you might effect several storylines. for instance lets say they make the Vong wars uncanon. Well alright they were rather boring anyways. however that would effect the character development of Jacen Solo meaning no Darth Caedus = the 8 Legacy of the Force books are uncanon, ups!

The same thing would happen if they should decide to kill some key character, lets for instance say they kill of Mara Jade before she originally die at the hands of Jacen. Well, first of all Ben Skywalker might not be burn, secondly Jacen would have to sacrifice someone else to become Darth Caedus = story is uncanon.

Then if that happened the Fate of the Jedi novels would also be uncanon since they are affected by the effects in Legacy of the Force etc.

As I said one stupide move might destroy a great many storyline and THEREFORE Disney need to be careful.


However, if they manage to do that there might come much good out of them buying Lucasfilms.
100k copies for a book that is pretty good espeically when you consider how cheap they are to make. There is a reason why who is it Del Ray is the publisher of all the star wars books. Because they sell a consisten amount (around 100k copies per book) and they use it to give new writers or good sci fi writers that want to widen their audience a way to do that.

Here are some actual break downs of the book sales

http://clubjade.net/?p=12874

In Adult Hardcovers:

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, Sean Williams, 103,232
Star Wars: The Clone Wars by Karen Traviss, 101,146
Star Wars: Legacy of the Force: Invincible, Troy Denning, 101,034
And in New Children’s paperback:

Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Tracey West, 190,700
Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Battle at Teth, Kirsten Mayer, 186,282
Star Wars: The Clone Wars: The New Padawan, Eric Stevens, 152,661
Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Intergalactic Adventure: Activity Book, no author listed, 119,621
Star Wars Fandex, Christopher Cerasi, 103,191

See the consistently sell in the 100k range. Of course it's not anywhere near as much as toys, movies or games but it's a respectable amount.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
11.07.2012 , 11:34 PM | #117
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
For the record, that stat he used was mine. So I prefer if you address my arguments rather than overlook them. Admittedly I didn't post the link to my source (it didn't copy across) so here it is

As you can see, you are correct. It does make around 20-50 million a year. But in comparison to the rest of the revenue, it is minuscule. Only 7%. And as I have already said, post-ROTJ is a fraction of that, and as a I have already said the effect the films would have (as I have already said, 4 years max) would be a fraction of that. So all in all, Disney have very little to lose (probably less than 1% of there revenue) and with have no qualms about labelling stuff non-canon. So, for the third (possible fourth, and hopefully final) time: no one cares

EDIT: lets prove JarJarloves wrong, who seems to think you don't listen.
Ok, so you're saying that they're going to throw that money away. As to your "no one cares" argument, that 20 - 50 mill proves otherwise. People do care. If you write them off, then that's your choice. Just don't presume that LucasArts and Disney will do the same. All I proposed was a way to keep all the fans satisfied, if not happy. You and Jarjar were the ones who decided to make a huge deal out of it and show your contempt for the minority of the fans. Would 3 full universes be THAT much of an affront to you? Sheesh. Like I said before, we'll just have to wait and see how Leland Chee fits the new stuff in with the old, or if he decides to do something different. I put forth an idea. My point was that if they used your idea, it would piss off fans, even if in the minority, and they would lose millions in revenue. I get that you don't care for post-RotJ. That doesn't mean "no one does".

If this had happened back in the Eisner days, I would say that you would most probably be 100% correct. These, however, are not the Eisner days. lol
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Timarick's Avatar


Timarick
11.08.2012 , 12:08 AM | #118
Quote: Originally Posted by Inzuher View Post
I would really like to see where those numbers come from because so far I have no reason to believe them. If the EU didn't sell they wouldn't produce stuff to it.

eitherway, my main concern is that since a lot of the events and characters is tied together in the EU. Change one wrong thing and you might effect several storylines. for instance lets say they make the Vong wars uncanon. Well alright they were rather boring anyways. however that would effect the character development of Jacen Solo meaning no Darth Caedus = the 8 Legacy of the Force books are uncanon, ups!

The same thing would happen if they should decide to kill some key character, lets for instance say they kill of Mara Jade before she originally die at the hands of Jacen. Well, first of all Ben Skywalker might not be burn, secondly Jacen would have to sacrifice someone else to become Darth Caedus = story is uncanon.

Then if that happened the Fate of the Jedi novels would also be uncanon since they are affected by the effects in Legacy of the Force etc.

As I said one stupide move might destroy a great many storyline and THEREFORE Disney need to be careful.


However, if they manage to do that there might come much good out of them buying Lucasfilms.
Look... I'm a diehard EU fan, but dude, there was a lot more than the YuZhonVong story that shaped Jacen into Darth Caedus. In fact MOST of whatever minor development that came out of the New Jedi Order stories were superfluous at best. They could completely cut out the entire New Jedi Order arc, make minor changes to the timeline, and still have Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi play out EXACTLY as it does. Clone Wars wasn't above stretching and retconning the wars from 3 years to 6, and editing several events like the Defense of Kamino and Mon Calamari. Why should this be different?

Note also, what has been released to the press was a VERY brief description of George's notes, which set Luke in his 40s training the new generation of Jedi with its own story. So that DOES decapitate the Vong storyline altogether. So keep your thong on for 5 seconds and think: NEW JEDI ORDER SUCKS. CHANGING IT DOES NOTHING TO THE EU.

And before anyone goes off on the "EU SUCKS" bandwagon, the Thrawn Trilogy and Duology sequel, the Dark Empire Trilogy, the Jedi Academy Trilogy, the Jedi Knight Trilogy video games, all set in post-ROTJ, are critically acclaimed and are all equally AWESOME. It goes downhill in the New Jedi Order, which makes Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi suffer like Episode 3 had to suffer with the stigma of Episode 1 and 2 when it as a standalone was a good movie.

And once more: DISNEY MIGHT OWN STAR WARS BUT IT IS NOT IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT! That still belongs to Lucasfilm in the same way Marvel drives their own ship. And nearly everyone at Lucasfilm loves the EU and always has to remind George of it and make a compromise.

So out of it: No NJO (yay), tons of EU characters like the Solo children, Mara Jade Skywalker, Kyle Katarn, and possibly Ben Skywalker (who knows). So on BOTH sides, give it a rest. The EU is going to permeate the movies whether you like it or not, but I think the filmmakers will have already thought of where to drop the retcon bomb in the place where it would futz the timeline the least.

So let's wait and see, ok?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
11.08.2012 , 12:44 AM | #119
Quote: Originally Posted by Captain_Zone View Post
Ok, so you're saying that they're going to throw that money away. As to your "no one cares" argument, that 20 - 50 mill proves otherwise. People do care. If you write them off, then that's your choice. Just don't presume that LucasArts and Disney will do the same. All I proposed was a way to keep all the fans satisfied, if not happy. You and Jarjar were the ones who decided to make a huge deal out of it and show your contempt for the minority of the fans. Would 3 full universes be THAT much of an affront to you? Sheesh. Like I said before, we'll just have to wait and see how Leland Chee fits the new stuff in with the old, or if he decides to do something different. I put forth an idea. My point was that if they used your idea, it would piss off fans, even if in the minority, and they would lose millions in revenue. I get that you don't care for post-RotJ. That doesn't mean "no one does".

If this had happened back in the Eisner days, I would say that you would most probably be 100% correct. These, however, are not the Eisner days. lol
Your right, it is a lot of money, even if it is a small percentage it is a lot of money. And disney does want to keep all its fans happy. But I think its easily work aroundably because they are such a small amount. They can easily placate them as as long as they avoid making the important stuff non-canon (e.g. Timothy Zahn) they can make it work. It is by no means an easy task though.

jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
11.08.2012 , 06:56 AM | #120
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Your right, it is a lot of money, even if it is a small percentage it is a lot of money. And disney does want to keep all its fans happy. But I think its easily work aroundably because they are such a small amount. They can easily placate them as as long as they avoid making the important stuff non-canon (e.g. Timothy Zahn) they can make it work. It is by no means an easy task though.
except we know for a fact those fans will STILL buy new books and storys made in the POST ROTJ EU. We know this for a fact. Just like when the Prequels came out those same fans raged but STILL ended up buying all the merchendise. It never hurt the sales at all.

We also see this with comics as well. Do you know how many times the DC and Marvel universes has been reset? Every time there is some initial rebelion and then people accept it and buy them at the same rate. Some times they buy more some times they buy less but it always seems to even out in the end.