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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
11.07.2012 , 03:15 PM | #3011
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
I say "given leave" but we haven't been specifically told not to and the community has been invited to ask in questions about content and the state of the game.
Specifically, he says

Quote: Originally Posted by Jeff Hickman
Iím hoping to use these postings as a direct way to address some of the top unresolved issues that most concern our community. I wonít get to everything all at once, but Iíll try to hit some of the big ones, and talk about these topics as openly as I can.
Given that our main concern here is that we have questions that have gone unanswered since pre-launch, and that no one else seems to have clearance to address it, I'd say this is indeed an invitation to ask.

The thread to address questions or comments to the State of the Game blog can be found here.

Ikod's Avatar


Ikod
11.07.2012 , 04:57 PM | #3012
It seems silly to go to extreme legnths here to see a particular cutscene. If you want a different set of cutscenes then reroll a toon of the approprate class/race/gender to see the clip you want. If you want to see Mako and Torian both then roll a male Powertech and a female Merc.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.07.2012 , 05:02 PM | #3013
Quote: Originally Posted by Ikod View Post
It seems silly to go to extreme legnths here to see a particular cutscene. If you want a different set of cutscenes then reroll a toon of the approprate class/race/gender to see the clip you want. If you want to see Mako and Torian both then roll a male Powertech and a female Merc.
Remember that the romances will have new dialogue, as they aren't just doing a pronoun switch. Also, you're dismissing people who are gay or lesbian, who want to see themselves represented in the game. It's not entirely about just that one Fade to Black scene - it's about Bioware keeping up their own standards (they haven't, in case you haven't noticed) and experiencing a story.

It only seems silly to you because you don't understand. Likewise a lot of my co-workers can't understand why I enjoy raiding or why video games themselves are such big business. Just because one person doesn't understand something, doesn't invalidate another's position.

However, you are somewhat right - it IS silly to go to such lengths to get information on this content. The information should be readily available, Bioware should be more forthcoming and the content should be in the game already.

SenatorPalpaTANG's Avatar


SenatorPalpaTANG
11.07.2012 , 05:54 PM | #3014
Woah, forgot about this thread. A few points:

Quote: Originally Posted by Ellianshia View Post
What we're doing is asking for more content as well, nothing else. While it may not be game-breaking or game-making, I doubt it will hurt to have it either. And really, if content is low-priority, then what is? In my opinion, it's bug fixes that need addressing first and foremost. Anything beyond that really falls under the same category.

But anyway... Nobody's asking that everything else be tossed away or stopped. All we're asking for is some storyline for people that prefer SGR. I'm not playing TOR. I don't want to play it to begin with, not until I have something to tickle my fancy. Why? Because if I get everything to lvl 50 and see all the storylines, then SGR gets implemented... well, I'll be replaying the same thing and skipping everything except the new content? It might be 5%, it might be less, but it's still part of the story... and experiencing it out of context and out of order kind of breaks the entertainment value... at least for me.
Cool, I hope it's all that you want it to be, whenever it goes live.

Quote:
SGR coming with a game expansion rather than a game patch kind of makes it worse. We have to pay for the right to be of a different sexuality now?
Oh come on, the game doesn't define your character's sexuality. Just because there aren't any gay companions doesn't mean your character can't be whatever you want him/her to be. You can play it completely asexually if you choose.

Quote:
Here we go again with majority versus minority. You're saying that I shouldn't go yelling discrimination when you keep going with "We have more of X than Y, so X needs to get more content than Y." That, in and of itself, is discrimination.
No, that's prudence, which is required in any business decision. It would be silly to devote a disproportionate amount of resources for something that appeals to so few given the current state of the game.

Quote:
I know you can't make all players happy. It's simply impossible to get a group of say... one million people together and make sure that everyone is happy while being put in the same situation, even if the situation is to give them each a million dollars a piece. There will always be someone that will find something to complain about. What they do at that point is try their best to make the highest percentage of people playing the game happy. And that, sometimes, includes making changes that affect minorities.
I don't disagree.

Quote:
We're expecting to be given the same thing that any hetero-sexual person gets out of their storyline. Nothing more, nothing less.
And in the games I mentioned you are. I think it was a mistake for Bioware to leave this out of launch, but what's done is done and there are other things that desperately need attending now.

Quote:
Priorities again... really? The promise was.... "You can expect SGR sometime this year." Well, guess what, this year is almost over... and we're not getting even a hint of it being near completion. I might be wrong here, it could come next patch, but honestly... not even a peep when PvE content gets previews practically two patches ahead?
And why do you think that is?

Quote:
Endgame being shallow will change... when? How much endgame is "enough"? 10 raids? 50? 500? And yes, you're pretty much saying... "Put SGRs in after you've sated all of us with PvE." But... let's say a year from now, there comes an expansion, raising the level cap, then you'd need new endgame content, more raids, etc, etc... so when does the cycle stop? Does it ever? If SGRs are being postponed until "endgame is better", it'll likely end up being implemented when there's no-one left to appreciate it.
I think once they get the new WZ out, cross server queues (for pvp and pve) running, server transfers, begin season 1 for rateds with i-level 63 armor, and expand the character stories beyond act 3, the game will be on solid enough ground to introduce SGRs.

Those changes alone will reinvigorate endgame play and liven up low pop servers. So, once the heavy lifting is out of the way there will be plenty of time for fluff content.

Quote:
To recap:
You keep throwing the same argument out over and over and over again while trying to dress it with different words. From what I understood of your post, it comes down to "Raids and WZs important, SGR - not because there's more PvP-ers and PvE-ers than people with different sexuality. Give the majority more content." I'd honestly recommend looking up the meaning of discrimination before posting.
The same argument stands because no one has really refuted it. As I said before, I'm not against SGRs. But the game needs a lot more than fluff, and that's all the romances are in this game, hetero or otherwise.
VIGILANCE Rancor Rider

Palar's Avatar


Palar
11.07.2012 , 07:19 PM | #3015
Quote: Originally Posted by SenatorPalpaTANG View Post
The same argument stands because no one has really refuted it. As I said before, I'm not against SGRs. But the game needs a lot more than fluff, and that's all the romances are in this game, hetero or otherwise.
If expecting more story in an MMO they hyped as being story-driven is "fluff", then bring on the fluff. Whether it be story, mini-games to have something to do at max-level beyond raiding, better appearance customisation...

"We're bored of doing FPs and Ops... but we want more of the same! Why aren't more people queueing for the things we just said we hate?" Level 50 is nothing but staring down a dark one-lane tunnel, and you'd prefer they make the tunnel even longer? We need some width.

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
11.07.2012 , 08:16 PM | #3016
Quote: Originally Posted by SenatorPalpaTANG View Post
The same argument stands because no one has really refuted it. As I said before, I'm not against SGRs. But the game needs a lot more than fluff, and that's all the romances are in this game, hetero or otherwise.
Well, unlike you, I won't claim to know what the game needs. But they've been adding "non-fluff" content since lunch. And, according to doomsayers and the like, game's sinking and stuff, so apparentely "non-fluff" content isn't working. Perhaps "fluff" content, like romances and other things, will bring more life to the game.

You keep saying you're not against SGRs, but you keep arguing against its inclusion, or favoring some very vague and undetermined delayed. Sorry, but you're kinda pushing what I can believe.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
11.07.2012 , 08:32 PM | #3017
The design team has said the focus is on frequent group content (read warzones, flashpoints and operations) and infrequent but much larger story content updates. We have seen nothing but group content added all this first year. The soonest story content can come at this point is December. I don't think that is too soon, or at all unfair to the schedule of development for group and endgame content. People are asking for re-play value. New story possibilities provide that.

Ellianshia's Avatar


Ellianshia
11.07.2012 , 10:59 PM | #3018
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
The design team has said the focus is on frequent group content (read warzones, flashpoints and operations) and infrequent but much larger story content updates. We have seen nothing but group content added all this first year. The soonest story content can come at this point is December. I don't think that is too soon, or at all unfair to the schedule of development for group and endgame content. People are asking for re-play value. New story possibilities provide that.
I'll certainly agree with you on that. Here's how I understand the whole delay.... given a coder and a writer of equal skill, writing code is much easier than writing story. You know what needs to happen and you have a relatively good base idea on how it can happen. While some things need reworking every now and then, it's pretty much a straight path. A story is much more complicated as it requires a lot more imagination. I can understand that, but... I haven't seen a whole lot of story content being added to the game, which makes me think that either they fired all their writers once the game was out (Overall, a pretty bad idea, considering it being a story-driven game) or they have one too many things said writers are working on rather than focusing on single projects to get them out of the way.

Players will always want more, so prioritizing tasks for the writers in an attempt to get content out in a timely fashion should really be done, because honestly, I don't see why there would be a hold-up otherwise.

Disclaimer: I know there's a whole lot of ifs and maybes in this post. It is pretty much me letting my train of thought go. Practically nothing in this post is and can be substantiated by evidence I am able to provide.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
11.08.2012 , 12:10 AM | #3019
Quote: Originally Posted by Ellianshia View Post
I'll certainly agree with you on that. Here's how I understand the whole delay.... given a coder and a writer of equal skill, writing code is much easier than writing story. You know what needs to happen and you have a relatively good base idea on how it can happen. While some things need reworking every now and then, it's pretty much a straight path. A story is much more complicated as it requires a lot more imagination. I can understand that, but... I haven't seen a whole lot of story content being added to the game, which makes me think that either they fired all their writers once the game was out (Overall, a pretty bad idea, considering it being a story-driven game) or they have one too many things said writers are working on rather than focusing on single projects to get them out of the way.

Players will always want more, so prioritizing tasks for the writers in an attempt to get content out in a timely fashion should really be done, because honestly, I don't see why there would be a hold-up otherwise.

Disclaimer: I know there's a whole lot of ifs and maybes in this post. It is pretty much me letting my train of thought go. Practically nothing in this post is and can be substantiated by evidence I am able to provide.
As far as I know, most of the writers are still on-board. A couple have left to pursue other things, including the Agent story author. That's a big loss, actually. IMO, the Agent story is the best in the game.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
11.08.2012 , 12:54 AM | #3020
We were told in March that writers on this game are given a very long lead time. This was said specifically in the context of same-gender romance, but it indicated to me that writers had their assignments and were being given the time to do the quality of work the studio wanted.

I think that goes for story content in general, and that is why the story update is coming in a lump at the end of the year, if we are right about what we have put together concerning Makeb. This also matches the development plan of frequent group content interspersed with infrequent but substantial story content.

Gabe didn't doubt this was in the works. He admitted he was not personally involved and fuzzy on specifics, but he did know that the content was in development and reasonably certain that it would be placed on the schedule to implement within a reasonable amount of time.

It would be nice to have this clarified, of course. But connecting the dots of what we have heard, this is what my best guess is.