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Sad state of operations


Pubsam's Avatar


Pubsam
11.06.2012 , 03:59 PM | #11
The trick is finding a guild group running an alt run. I got my Sorc alt into a ECSM run wearing only Columi. I told them I knew the fights inside-out, and they were confident enough in their own abilities.

Try to avoid a pug if they're pugging more than 3 people. When half the raid is strangers, I think that's the turning point where pug leaders go from confident to nervous.
Time for a nap.

Fayme's Avatar


Fayme
11.06.2012 , 04:38 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Huobes View Post
Right, this is my point. Unfortunately, this seems to be a widespread perception. My post is both lamenting that fact and hoping to inform people to the contrary. In fact, just in this thread, someone equated TFB SM with EC HM. It's confusing, but the real hierarchy is NiM EV = NiM KP = EC SM = TFB SM < EC HM < TFB HM. Wish more people would understand that.
TFB was just released, so before that the gear progression was (rakata) NiM EV= NiM KP= EC SM -> (campaign) EC HM. I don't see what's confusing. I said it was the next logical step in gear progression.

PLUS...
Spoiler
SWTOR PvP = nerf teams of stunlocking operatives to create teams of stunlocking [insert any AC here]

SleepyKing's Avatar


SleepyKing
11.06.2012 , 04:48 PM | #13
I often find the same thing as the OP - there are plenty of gear snobs to go around. In truth, knowledge of mechanics and good team play goes much further than the 5% (if that) difference between being in full Rakata vs Columi. Hell, I'd rather run an Op with someone in recruit gear who is a good team player than someone in full BH who has no idea what they're doing.

brrr's Avatar


brrr
11.06.2012 , 04:51 PM | #14
In terror SM last week we sevened manned the first boss, while carrying a fresh 50 literally dinged his first fifty a few hours before we started, and was in recruit gear. Someone, another relatively fresh 50 logged in and we downed up to kephess with that group before one had to go.

Attempted to seven man Terror and got him to 7%. Pugged someone in battlemaster and a couple of pieces of war hero who had never done an operation before, had no vent and downed Terror in one go. Only unfortunate bit was the pug died in the last phase and tried to res like flashpoints allow you to do now so missed out on rolling for loot because he wasn't in the instance for the kill.

In conclusion too many bad players this is not hard at all in SM. Gear requirements are almost non existent if you can get at least 2 decent dps.

Vacarius's Avatar


Vacarius
11.06.2012 , 05:10 PM | #15
Though the raid leader is probably just clueless, sometimes when I'm running a guild raid I will request people with more gear. I very rarely do this, but sometimes I'm already carrying new guildies(alts) who are significantly undergeared (recruit/tionese), and need more geared people to help balance them out. I prefer to do this only with guildies, but possible smaller guilds might need pugs to help out.
Seikier - Operative Healer
Officer of Nightmare Council

toyfanatic's Avatar


toyfanatic
11.06.2012 , 06:19 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Pubsam View Post
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Try to avoid a pug if they're pugging more than 3 people. When half the raid is strangers, I think that's the turning point where pug leaders go from confident to nervous.
I couldn't agree more. I would never try to run a OPS that wasn't a guild run. If they were a alliance guild ,on your freinds list and some one vouches for them. Bring them. Now the OP said he is in rakata, many of us rember when rakata was a commodity. I disagree with the raid leader who declined your admittance. BH is to easy to come by, give a guy who has full rakata and it proves to me he has some experiance as a raider. As a shadow tank most of the rakata is better than the black hole.
Now on player quality vs. gear- i would rather have a optimized rakata/BH geared tank for story mode TFB. Why you ask? The FINAL phase of TFB is a bit hectic. Even if all people know the fights well enough the issue becomes how many mistakes can the group take before its a wipe. With that said, the OP would have easily passed my requirements for a raid with us.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
11.06.2012 , 11:28 PM | #17
I would really argue that Nightmare EV and KP are substantially harder than SM TFB and EC. They actually do have hard gear-checks; I wouldn't walk into them with a Columi-geared group. Nightmare EV/KP are somewhat above SM EC/TFB but (far) below HM EC/TFB.

Now, hard mode EV/KP are very definitely at the same level as story mode TFB/EC, if not slightly easier.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

Karasuko's Avatar


Karasuko
11.07.2012 , 12:57 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Huobes View Post
This thread is not, as you might have expected, a criticism of Bioware -- it's more a problem with how the player base is tackling end-game operations.

It seems as though player skill is at such a sad point that people forming ops groups are imposing gear restrictions way beyond what they should be for a given operation. I am gearing up an alt DPS sorc, and I got turned down from SM TFB twice last night due to my gear, which is full rakata except for two pieces of columi. Um, am I delusional or does SM TFB drop rakata? How am I supposed to gear up if groups doing the content that drops the gear I need will not take me? You really want me to grind black hole comms and credits to buy individual mods/armorings to gear up, just so I can over-gear content and put ops leaders' minds at ease? No thanks, I'd rather do it the old-fashioned way. It's pretty simple: I need rakata, SM TFB drops rakata. Thus, I should be doing SM TFB.

Come on people, this instance is not that hard. I do 16M HM on my main with my guild, and people are acting like you need full campaign for story mode. 80% of TFB is about mechanics -- get them down and you're good, as long as you can do decent DPS (and have tanks and healers doing their jobs, as well). Has player skill really dipped to such a low that people don't feel comfortable doing the content unless they completely out-gear it?

Anyone else found this to be the case? It's pretty sad. Man up and challenge yourselves.
Nothing short of god mode is going to fix the player base, and sadly bringing it up in a forum where only 1% of the player base exists won't help matters.

RandomXChance's Avatar


RandomXChance
11.07.2012 , 01:27 AM | #19
I just ran a full PUG SM TfB run. One of the DPS was in all 61's but was a terrible player. Group consensus was to kick the player and get a replacement. Picked up a full columi DPS replacement and sailed through. It does not tale long in an Op to see who is not cut out, regardless of gear.

Kanjir's Avatar


Kanjir
11.07.2012 , 02:13 AM | #20
I believe it's more about the poor quality of players. I've been with many people who believe they're all decked out and hot **** when they have more endurance then main-stat for a full 61 dps/healer. If you're hitting enrage in TFB SM, that's pretty bad. TFB SM is easy enough that a group in Columi shouldn't have too much trouble. Provided they have some idea about what they're doing.