Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Sad state of operations


Huobes's Avatar


Huobes
11.06.2012 , 10:42 AM | #1
This thread is not, as you might have expected, a criticism of Bioware -- it's more a problem with how the player base is tackling end-game operations.

It seems as though player skill is at such a sad point that people forming ops groups are imposing gear restrictions way beyond what they should be for a given operation. I am gearing up an alt DPS sorc, and I got turned down from SM TFB twice last night due to my gear, which is full rakata except for two pieces of columi. Um, am I delusional or does SM TFB drop rakata? How am I supposed to gear up if groups doing the content that drops the gear I need will not take me? You really want me to grind black hole comms and credits to buy individual mods/armorings to gear up, just so I can over-gear content and put ops leaders' minds at ease? No thanks, I'd rather do it the old-fashioned way. It's pretty simple: I need rakata, SM TFB drops rakata. Thus, I should be doing SM TFB.

Come on people, this instance is not that hard. I do 16M HM on my main with my guild, and people are acting like you need full campaign for story mode. 80% of TFB is about mechanics -- get them down and you're good, as long as you can do decent DPS (and have tanks and healers doing their jobs, as well). Has player skill really dipped to such a low that people don't feel comfortable doing the content unless they completely out-gear it?

Anyone else found this to be the case? It's pretty sad. Man up and challenge yourselves.

Codek's Avatar


Codek
11.06.2012 , 11:15 AM | #2
You have to remember that generally speaking, there is a huge difference between a reliable rakata raid member, and a rakata PuG. It's very easy to clear TFB in Rakata with people you can depend on to do what is needed, but PuG's on average tend to be all over the place.

To make up for this loss in comfort and reliability, the only option is to request for over geared players (who you can roughly assume knows whats going on since they already have the gear).
~Codek

Huobes's Avatar


Huobes
11.06.2012 , 11:36 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Codek View Post
You have to remember that generally speaking, there is a huge difference between a reliable rakata raid member, and a rakata PuG. It's very easy to clear TFB in Rakata with people you can depend on to do what is needed, but PuG's on average tend to be all over the place.

To make up for this loss in comfort and reliability, the only option is to request for over geared players (who you can roughly assume knows whats going on since they already have the gear).
Good points. For what it's worth, I did tell the guy that it was just an alt I'm gearing up and I know what I'm doing. He also had an issue with my gear itemization, but he did not seem to understand that this was not my final gear configuration. I'm gearing up! He complained that some of the mods in my gear were not updated...well, that's because they were lettered mods and the columi mods I already had were better (I look at main stat + power in comparing mods). He also complained that all of my pieces were not augmented. You really want me to augment pieces that I plan to upgrade shortly? Come on....

It just seems that, with almost all of the gear available without having to set foot in an operation, the art of running ops to gear up has been lost. Do people not do this anymore? People just hit 50 and immediately buy all the campaign gear and run operations that are way too easy for them? Sounds like a whole lotta fun...

Fayme's Avatar


Fayme
11.06.2012 , 11:54 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Huobes View Post
Do people not do this anymore? People just hit 50 and immediately buy all the campaign gear and run operations that are way too easy for them? Sounds like a whole lotta fun...
Unfortunately no one does this anymore, probably because most people, like you, are gearing up an alt. No one wants to use their BH comms for an implant (350 for an implant with small stat boost) no thanks. I'd rather use them and buy BH gear and give the mods to my alt through legacy gear. What are you saving your BH comms for on your main?
SWTOR PvP = nerf teams of stunlocking operatives to create teams of stunlocking [insert any AC here]

Naldash's Avatar


Naldash
11.06.2012 , 01:25 PM | #5
I agree with the OP totally. So I should only grind BH comms with my main so I can transfer over the mods through legacy gear... So when should I play my alt? Only when I have all BH Mods?

The main problem I see also is there is a huge gap in gear advancement. Please tell me if I'm wrong but there are only 2 ops which drop campaign and higher which is of course EC HM and TFB HM. Since the majority of people believe that you need to have all BH mods to even attempt those 2 what is the point of doing EC HM if not for the main hand HILT. Oh sorry and to clear the quest for the nightscythe. The fix is simple enough. We have tionese comms, columni comms, and then BH comms? Why do they not have a daily or weekly for rakata and campaign comms?
"I Love hitmen. No matter how much you hurt them you never feel bad" Sin City

Fayme's Avatar


Fayme
11.06.2012 , 01:50 PM | #6
I didn't say you should, I'm just saying I did, and I would assume most people do. I play an alt for a change of pace and a different play style. I've seen all the fights of the endgame content except the last two bosses in TFB on HM. I am glad I don't have to do the gear progression again on an alt.

I don't see a problem with what the OP is saying, I was just answering his question in regards to if people work their way up in gear progression. Why should I if I don't have to? I would accept a rakata geared player in TFB SM or EC HM since that is the next logical step in gear progression. But I don't understand why you wouldn't gear for an alt with bh comms if they are just sitting on your main? But you might as well wait til 1.5 at this point where you will be able to buy the campaign armorings directly with bh comms.
SWTOR PvP = nerf teams of stunlocking operatives to create teams of stunlocking [insert any AC here]

Huobes's Avatar


Huobes
11.06.2012 , 02:19 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Fayme View Post
... But you might as well wait til 1.5 at this point where you will be able to buy the campaign armorings directly with bh comms.
This is what I'm stockpiling black hole commendations on my main for. As they have added new items to be purchased and we know they will be doing so again, I am hesitant to waste comms on gearing up alts when I can just run ops with my alts, which is fun. That's the point -- I do actually find it fun going through the gear progression with a new character. Although I've experienced all of the ops and bosses, I find it new and exciting doing them with a different character that accomplishes things differently. Plus, it's actually exciting downing a boss again when you know there might be an upgrade in it for you. That is, if you are even given the opportunity to be there...

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
11.06.2012 , 03:07 PM | #8
I don't really see this as a design or ops flaw, but more of a guild flaw. We are running SM, HM and NIM EV and KP for fresh 50's and fresh 50 alts. We also run them through HMFP (fresh 50s) so that they can gear and get comms plus learn the instances before we throw them to PUG HM FPs . Personally I would love to do all the ops on each of my alts, but many times I will still do them with my main since the group is short a healer (be glad to get my commando to 50 so I am not doing SM EV with a campaign geared sawbones). Most of my alt have been/will be geared through legacy and crewskills, but I skill plan on doing all the ops on every alt for no other reason than I want my speeders.

NotRonin's Avatar


NotRonin
11.06.2012 , 03:33 PM | #9
TFB SM have a very lenient gear requirement. It's designed for players in Columi, which is why it's dropping Rakata.. This just demonstrates the raid leader is clueless and relies on being 'overgeared' to get through the mechanics.

Huobes's Avatar


Huobes
11.06.2012 , 03:45 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by NotRonin View Post
TFB SM have a very lenient gear requirement. It's designed for players in Columi, which is why it's dropping Rakata.. This just demonstrates the raid leader is clueless and relies on being 'overgeared' to get through the mechanics.
Right, this is my point. Unfortunately, this seems to be a widespread perception. My post is both lamenting that fact and hoping to inform people to the contrary. In fact, just in this thread, someone equated TFB SM with EC HM. It's confusing, but the real hierarchy is NiM EV = NiM KP = EC SM = TFB SM < EC HM < TFB HM. Wish more people would understand that.