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Resolve Thread #1 Billion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Resolve Thread #1 Billion

JackNader's Avatar


JackNader
11.05.2012 , 09:32 AM | #1
Core changes..

Players have a 1000 point resolve bar. Resolve decays continuously at a rate of 50 points per second. Once the resolve bar is filled the player is granted "unstoppable" for 4 seconds. During this time the player cannot be stunned, rooted, slowed, knockdown or otherwise impaired in any way. Players who continue to stun "unstoppable" targets will still be filling the resolve bar and thus "refresh" the unstoppable duration. Basically the more stuns that get lobbed at you the longer you remain unstoppable. The unstoppable buff will be shown as a distinctive aura surrounding the target.

All the 4 second stuns such as debilitate and electrocute are turned into "10m ranged" knockdowns. These knockdowns last no more than 1.5 seconds and cannot miss, be dodged, deflected or resisted in any way. The reason for this change is to prevent players from "abusing" the stun mechanic. That is, multiple players ganking a target while they each take it in turns dumping their stuns.

****Edit
If people must have there stuns then they would build resolve in the same manor as a mez.. See below. They would build 300 resolve per second.
****

All mezzes are left unchanged and build resolve at a rate of 150 points per second under the mez. Keep in mind that resolve is decaying at a rate of 50 points per second so the net resolve build is 100 resolve per second. This means that full resolve is granted after 10 seconds of mezz. This is sufficient to allow tactical node capping without breaking the mechanic.

All pulls, pushes and knockdowns build a flat 300 points of resolve.

Roots build 150 points of resolve per second under the effect.

Force choke and carbonize are left unchanged. They both build resolve at a rate of 300 points for every second under the effect.

Slows do not build resolve.

The breakstun ability is altered so that it immediately grants a full resolve bar. This will facilitate a more tactical use of the ability. It's cooldown is left unchanged and it can only be used if you are under a controlling effect.

Ferkles's Avatar


Ferkles
11.05.2012 , 09:38 AM | #2
Or after each CC/root/knockdown one charge of "Unstoppable" is granted reducing the effect of the next stun, root, or knockdown by 35%. Stacks up to 3 times. Lasts 15 seconds.


Okay, so numbers may not be the perfect values, but it can't be much worse than resolve is now.
Getting a new signature. Eventually~

DaveyboyW's Avatar


DaveyboyW
11.05.2012 , 09:46 AM | #3
Okay, but do you super-duper promise not to run away if I force leap to you. Or can I have a 10m range on my lightsaber?

Solarenergy's Avatar


Solarenergy
11.05.2012 , 10:19 AM | #4
Disagree with two points.

1. Roots building resolve=problematic for classes that rely on roots to keep distance (sniper/gunslinger).
Also, I already have a problem with those pesky guardians/juggernauts that are immune to any sort of cc, including knockback for a duration...the longer they stay in a sniper's face the quicker the sniper dies, being able to keep melee classes at bay is the key to survival for the class.

2. Debilitate, electrocute, other 4m stuns being 1.5 second knockdowns is unfair. Every class gets a true stun why should 4m ones which are on ranged classes be nerfed to this? Yeah, multiple enemies beating on one player and stunlocking him is unfair, but what about some poor gunslinger who's trying to fight a melee one on one? Why punish everyone?

Would like to add that yes, I hate the way resolve is right now as much as the next guy. It's no fun when you get cc after cc after cc. And the game now rewards people for being careless with cc instead of punishing them. That's why you have all these knights and their uncles constantly using the aoe mezz, followed by stealthers mind-trapping twice in a row, and then proceeding to use their actual stun, etc. It's a nightmare of cc out there almost every match. But remember, it wasn't always like that. Want to know the best way to fix resolve? Simple. Just return it back to what it was before 1.4. Notice how there were very few threads about then. 1.4 is what broke it. They messed with something that wasn't broken, and so it broke.

JackNader's Avatar


JackNader
11.05.2012 , 04:50 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Solarenergy View Post
Disagree with two points.

1. Roots building resolve=problematic for classes that rely on roots to keep distance (sniper/gunslinger).
Also, I already have a problem with those pesky guardians/juggernauts that are immune to any sort of cc, including knockback for a duration...the longer they stay in a sniper's face the quicker the sniper dies, being able to keep melee classes at bay is the key to survival for the class.

2. Debilitate, electrocute, other 4m stuns being 1.5 second knockdowns is unfair. Every class gets a true stun why should 4m ones which are on ranged classes be nerfed to this? Yeah, multiple enemies beating on one player and stunlocking him is unfair, but what about some poor gunslinger who's trying to fight a melee one on one? Why punish everyone?

Would like to add that yes, I hate the way resolve is right now as much as the next guy. It's no fun when you get cc after cc after cc. And the game now rewards people for being careless with cc instead of punishing them. That's why you have all these knights and their uncles constantly using the aoe mezz, followed by stealthers mind-trapping twice in a row, and then proceeding to use their actual stun, etc. It's a nightmare of cc out there almost every match. But remember, it wasn't always like that. Want to know the best way to fix resolve? Simple. Just return it back to what it was before 1.4. Notice how there were very few threads about then. 1.4 is what broke it. They messed with something that wasn't broken, and so it broke.
Just think about what you said here..

First point.. Roots build resolve.

This system does not prevent you from keeping any warrior at bay. Remember that the resolve bar is decaying constantly at a rate of 50 points per second. Your root lasts 2 seconds and is on a 9 - 12 second cooldown. This means you can never fill the resolve bar in this fashion. All the system does is prevent players who "gank" targets from stunlocking their target for the entire duration of their health pool. Basically in a 1v1 situation.. you're never going to fill the resolve bar. However, if the warriors bar suddenly fills right up what it means is that he's being attacked by multiple targets and in which case your still fine because your buddies are supporting you.

Second point..

How is changing all the 4second stuns to ranged knockdowns unfair? ALL classes who have an ability that fits this description would change. Right now the biggest offenders for causing stunlocked players are the 4 second hard stuns. Sure we could simply remove these stuns completely from the game but if we did that how would we interrupt HD, ravage, ambush etc? This is why I elected to change the ability to a ranged knockdown. In fact debilitate would go from a 4m range to a 10m range so it is to a snipers advantage. Hell, the range of those abilities could be set back to 30m and even have a slow mechanic attached to them.

Solarenergy's Avatar


Solarenergy
11.05.2012 , 10:46 PM | #6
I get what you're trying to say about roots, still not sure if they should build resolve though. Maybe it wouldn't be too bad. But that really isn't the problem right now. There are a bunch of other things that can and should build resolve, and the system would work just fine (note, the way it already did not so long ago). And I would never vote to completely get rid of stuns in PVP. It's perfectly fair when used at certain times, and if resolve is working in a well-designed and fair way. Stuns are just a part of PVP, I've never been one of those people that would like them eliminated or changed into something else. Even if you do increase the range, what you're proposing means that no class will have a true stun anymore and again, that's not the real problem or issue at all. Every class should have a true stun, it's not what most people are complaining about. It's the current resolve system that allows multiple CC"s without filling the resolve bar and becoming immune to them.

This never happened before 1.4. Everything was working fine. So I am saying that's all they really need to do, just return it like it was before. Every warzone you get three knights all using their Awe ability consecutively....awe...damage breaks it...awe again...for its full duration...awe again...seriously?! They walk by you just to do the awe, because it's become the way the game is played now. Before they saved it for the right time, now its "hi, say hello to my little mezz!" That's just one example of course, but a common one. Resolve builds so slowly now, that it just ruins the gameplay. Before it was pretty much two cc's and that's it. Everyone had to be smarter about using their cc's, now they use them every second they get because they get rewarded for it, and that's the problem. Just change it to what it was like before, and I bet there will never be another thread complaining about resolve again.

JackNader's Avatar


JackNader
11.06.2012 , 01:19 AM | #7
Yeh, it's not quite that simple. You have to keep in mind that the time to kill is decreasing with every patch. This last patch definitely made the stunlocking issue worse by "increasing' the duration that you can be stunned for. Pre 1.4 was not quite as bad but still very bad. Everyone can relate to having 4 - 5 guys beat on them only to watch their full resolve bar melt away while they stood in the spawn area. The resolve system is and has always been broken and it's only going to get worse.

The current system does not punish players for completely filling a resolve bar. What is the point of achieving full resolve if it ..
A) does not remove all movement impairing effects off of you and
B) Still allows you to be rooted or slowed once free of the stun.

We all know the answer to this...

Then there is the current lame stun break mechanic where you are basically encouraged to allow players to beat on you until you are at full resolve. Even then, provided that you survived, you can still be rooted and slowed to an extent that renders the break utterly worthless.

The changes I proposed address all of these issues. They punish players who spam their stuns off cooldown and encourage a more tactical use of them. Also the new root break mechanic would become an extremely useful tools. It would in fact alter this game to such an extent that individual SKILL would prevail over the current gangking mentality. It would even strip away some of the pre-made glory because you will no longer be able to gank a target, keeping them perma stunned while you and your buddies beat on them. 5 seconds of stun is all you will get before the effects end.

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
11.06.2012 , 02:02 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by JackNader View Post
Yeh, it's not quite that simple. You have to keep in mind that the time to kill is decreasing with every patch. This last patch definitely made the stunlocking issue worse by "increasing' the duration that you can be stunned for. Pre 1.4 was not quite as bad but still very bad. Everyone can relate to having 4 - 5 guys beat on them only to watch their full resolve bar melt away while they stood in the spawn area.
I hate the recent resolve change as much as anyone else because it rewards baddies. It did not change how long you could be CC though, just more often.

Your suggest resolve changes would do nothing about the whole getting beat on by 5 guys and dying quickly. There's also nothing wrong with that scenario. You should die if you're being attacked by 5 guys.

Quote:
The resolve system is and has always been broken and it's only going to get worse.
God I'm so tired so bads who don't understand what the resolve system is complaining about it. Resolve has NEVER been broken. It has always worked the way it was intended to. NOBODY has been able to provide any proof that it was broken in the 10 months SWTOR has been out.

Quote:
The current system does not punish players for completely filling a resolve bar. What is the point of achieving full resolve if it ..
A) does not remove all movement impairing effects off of you and
B) Still allows you to be rooted or slowed once free of the stun.
You clearly haven't played a ranged dps class for any extensive period of time if you think a full resolve bar melee coming at you isn't punishing.

Quote:
We all know the answer to this...

Then there is the current lame stun break mechanic where you are basically encouraged to allow players to beat on you until you are at full resolve. Even then, provided that you survived, you can still be rooted and slowed to an extent that renders the break utterly worthless.
Roots/snares being affected by resolve means ranged dps classes will get ***** left and right, and ranged classes are already suffering compared to melee. It will also make scoring in huttball waaaaaaaaay too easy, as well as make it harder to cap a node or plant a bomb.

Quote:
The changes I proposed address all of these issues. They punish players who spam their stuns off cooldown and encourage a more tactical use of them. Also the new root break mechanic would become an extremely useful tools. It would in fact alter this game to such an extent that individual SKILL would prevail over the current gangking mentality. It would even strip away some of the pre-made glory because you will no longer be able to gank a target, keeping them perma stunned while you and your buddies beat on them. 5 seconds of stun is all you will get before the effects end.
We just need to revert the recent resolve change and we're good. I'd be down for a few tweaks like lower cd on cc breaker, or using it giving you full resolve. Something small like that, but not putting roots/snares on there because it will suck for ranged.

JackNader's Avatar


JackNader
11.06.2012 , 02:45 AM | #9
sigh. What happens if your ranged now? That's right 2 - 3 warriors leap to you root, push and choke you to death. Guess what will happen with the changes I proposed.. oh yes you're resolve will fill up within a few globals giving you unstoppable as ranged. That let's you kite and there's not a damn thing the melee can do about it. Once you are full resolved that's it. They have to deliberately wait and let your resolve come off before they can do anything about your movement. If anything the changes I propose punish melee players more than ranged. In terms of 1v1 nothing changes. You will NEVER fill the resolve of the opposing player unless you stun/root every global or if they pop their breaker. At which point you can also pop your breaker.

Look this is really simple.. you cannot take my system and say adding roots to resolve would ruin things when it's quite clear you are projecting it over the "current" system. Yes, in this regard you're completely right here! If they added roots to the current resolve system then ranged would get completely ****ed over. Also everyone would be walking around 100% resolved all the time.

As far as resolve not working.. It absolutely unequivocally does not work. Why even have resolve at all if all it does is drain away in the respawn area? Tell me what the point of it is, please? Hell if you want a crystal clear demonstartion of what the 'current" resolve system has in store for you, try playing huttball as a ball carrier. There's been matches where a simple task like walking from the huttball pickup point to the pit area ( only about a 40m distance) has taken more than a minute. Most games I end up rooted in the pit blowing every cooldown, mashing pass and forward. I only need to take like 3 more steps but I can't. I am full resolved and have been for the past 30 seconds while my character just stands there rooted, bleeding health. The funniest bit of all is that most classes couldn't get 5 meters without being totally beaten to death. Heck this is actually the reason I play an immortal vengeance jug just so I don't have to put up with the lame stunfest as much as other classes. You can't stunlock an immortal vengeance jug to death. They at least have a fighting chance.

Would my changes allow easier huttball capping? Sure, not just for jugs but for all classes. It would encourage skillful passing, tactical rooting and slowing rather then the current gank cluster **** mindless zombie stunfest. Hell it might even cause people to actually start playing huttball rather than the typical DPS stat padding shenanigans.

Would my changes prevent 5 players from stunlocking and beating down their oponent? Hell yes! The current system you can be stunned for more than 8 seconds straight and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Even when your resolve is full they can still beat you down while your character just stands there bent over. My changes allow not only a meaningful escape mechanism but also a big restriction on the duration you can be disabled for.

Reverting the changes won't solve a damn thing. As I pointed out the TTK gets faster every patch. The resolve system was never built to handle this. It's broken, it's not working as intended. If it was then why did bioware change it? Well they did change it and their changes failed miserably. Time for a revamp.

Solarenergy's Avatar


Solarenergy
11.06.2012 , 09:28 AM | #10
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say about roots building resolve. It would make melee classes even more powerful, and weaken ranged too much. I think it's fine as it is that roots can't build resolve. If you've ever had one of those guardians or shadows on you with CC immunity, you'll know how much a ranged class suffers in those situations.
Also, I don't think resolve is the reason you can be cornered by 3 or 4 opponents and killed quickly. That happens in every warzone, we've all had it done to us and we all do it ourselves. Even if you are completely immune to any form of cc, you will most likely die if those situations. It's really not resolve to blame on that one.
Like I said before, resolve was fine before 1.4. It was never broken before,( hence it's easy to see the drastic difference before then and now)The problem is they broke it because now it doesn't fill the way it used to therefore it is highly probable to find yourself cc'd three times in a row, hence you have a bunch of people having a field day throwing out their aoe mezzes, their stealth mezzes, and so on. It makes for a bad pvp experience because you find yourself cc's twice as often or more as you were prior to 1.4.