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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

DarthRaika's Avatar

11.04.2012 , 04:23 PM | #351
Doom, do you think what I said above would drive up q times much for anyone (if it is implemented well)? I don't think it will more than a few minutes. Also, and this is very important, very many people don't pvp that often anymore because of their bad experiences. If we make their experiences better then q times will go down due to more people q'n up.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar

11.04.2012 , 04:29 PM | #352
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthRaika View Post
Doom, do you think what I said above would drive up q times much for anyone (if it is implemented well)? I don't think it will more than a few minutes. Also, and this is very important, very many people don't pvp that often anymore because of their bad experiences. If we make their experiences better then q times will go down due to more people q'n up.
If I read it correctly (and I apologize for not commenting earlier), you are suggesting that the matchmaking system actually take into account party size when setting up matches?

For example, 2 4man premades queue, 8 pugs. The game will -never- allow it to be the 2 premades vs the 8 pugs, but will instead match 1 premad+4 pugs to 1 premade+4 pugs.

If I understood that correctly, then I'd agree. It would still be inclusive (allowing 1-4 people to queue together) while leveling the playing field. I think with current populations it would raise queue times... but, cross server queueing would easily fix that.

SammuelSK's Avatar

11.04.2012 , 05:01 PM | #353
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Your comment about GW2 has been noted. As I am unfamiliar with that games setup of servers, cross-server queueing, and population, there is no comparison that can be drawn, but thank you for mentioning it.

I've only quoted the paragraph above for a very simple reason. If you are asking someone to do -more- work then you are willing to do yourself, you are lazy. Plain, Simple, Truth.

Until you stop being lazy and simplistic in your thinking, it is unlikely we can engage in an equal conversation.
And here's my problem. That is exactly what you are doing. You are asking for a group of complete strangers, from different guilds and using different software(vent, ts, rw, etc) to magically come together and face off against a group of guildies using the same software, pre-organized before the match and fully aware of each others strengths and weaknesses.

Somehow the random strangers need to get the software downloaded, installed, get the channels setup, have everyone meet and greet and setup a strategy in the what.. minute before the match starts? Right..

But hey, lets just call the pug players lazy. That'll show them!

Look the system as is doesn't work. It rewards the people who don't want competition, who are in your own words too lazy to get organized for ranked warzones and much rather just stomp the undergeared, underprepared and unorganized pugs rather than face a team that'll actually challenge them. I don't think that asking a guild to create a full premade in order to compete in ranked PVP is somehow more of a stretch then asking complete strangers to organize themselves to face off against a premade. On the other hand, a completely random queue actually involves more of the player base, creating a vastly larger pool of players who will then start organizing themselves into their own premades to do ranked pvp that in the long term improves that aspect of the game as well.

It is a win/win situation.... except for those players seeking free kills and easy wins. I'd challenge you to prove me wrong, but well.. I've played games where such changes have been made and seen the results.
Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller
We have very measurable statistics that tell us if people lose a certain number of Warzones in a row being stun locked by a team of Operatives, then that might be part of that, and they will be not as likely to re-subscribe.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar

11.04.2012 , 05:17 PM | #354
It's very simple Samuel.

I have not asked you to do anything more than I have done.

You are asking me to do twice what you have done.

If you can not see the inequallity, then I have nothing else to say to you.

FallenX's Avatar

11.04.2012 , 05:37 PM | #355
Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
Less and less people are pvp'ing now, sometimes it takes 45-60 mins for a pop to happen.... I've noticed a trend on certain servers you get a few PvP guilds that do nothing but make up 4 man premades and ruin all the fun for people who just want jump into a quick warzone... What happens is you can go against a fully geared out premade who's on vent/mumble/team speak and they pretty much just own everyone...

Bioware you need to add a PUG only warzone option, this will level the playing field more and allow people to just have fun.... If not, less and less people are going to pvp due to frustration with the situation..
While I dont really think premades ruin it...more like make it more challenging, I do think that these premades should suck it up and do rateds. It disgusts me how many premades I see in regs from guilds that often have enough on to do rateds. Just pathetic to call themselves pvpers imho. Rateds would pop way more frequently if some of these guilds actually learned 2 play and qued for rateds instead of beating disorganized pugs to make them feel better.
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AlyxDinas's Avatar

11.04.2012 , 06:28 PM | #356
Don't know if it's premades but there does seem to be some sort of newer gear disparity happening even with MK2s and all that. At least from my perspective. People joining PvP new don't have half as much of a grind and the MK2's a fair enough buffer but they're still entering into WZs where a WH Pyro will come and spike them in, like 3-4 GCDs or even less.

That's a morale thing. I have fine gear and it's hard to deal with a WZ where I'm running with half a team at 13k, sometimes with the match starting with six on my side, and generally facing classes which still are in need of tuning.

Some people stick with it. Some people have always stuck with it. Back through RNG bags and all kinds of things. But I think PvP might actually be in a worse place than it was back then. TTK for some specs is insanely high and does not balance out with the uptimes for tanks or other targets.

Disparity is huge. Have a well geared main. Tank. Easily get the minimum 8 medals and more. (I know, I know. Tank. Hublablabla). Even with some intro BM pieces from stocked coms...I just played with my DPS character and we got so stomped that my total medal gain was...1.

ONE. I don't know how that's possible even with someone incompetent behind the screen, let alone someone who knows what they are doing. And yet, uptime was so pitiful that not one of us could counter the enemy team.
'Jeos Dinas'-Ebon Hawk
Manager, The Ebon Hawk Bounty Board
"Perception Problem."

DarthRaika's Avatar

11.04.2012 , 06:55 PM | #357
Doom, rift went through several iterations. First was a premade matching that made q's long since you always HAD to fight a premade. Then they made it so that premades were often matched if possible but if it was taking more than a few mins you got in against pugs. Then later they even made it mixed faction teams. These helped a lot but Rift also killed a lot of viable specs shortly after the 2nd iteration and myself along with many of my pvp friends got bored and left since all of us played 4 or 5 pvp specs. We had a lot of fun when premade matching actually started to work though.

LordExozone's Avatar

11.04.2012 , 07:28 PM | #358
I'm seeing this more and more on The Progenitor too, premades from Requiem & Sith Dominion roflstomping undergeared/unorganized PUG's for lolz rather than fighting equal opponents in ranked. I don't mind facing them too much, but it makes for boring matches even when I'm in the same team as one of these premades. I'm also noticing a decrease in people queue'ing up for warzones due to the premades, leading to longer queue times for me.

My suggestion: Create 3 warzone tiers instead of the current 2. One tier as it is now but that allows a max of 2 players to queue together, and which rewards the normal warzone commendations. A second tier for small groups of 2-4 players that rewards a mix of warzone and ranked warzone commendations, and finally the ranked warzones for full teams of 8 as it is now.
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jprife's Avatar

11.04.2012 , 08:45 PM | #359
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Then not to be rude, but you really can't complain about anything. You don't have the time to see how common/uncommon a problem is. It's just as likely bad luck has caused your 30 minutes a day to be almost all smashed-by-WH-premade matches, while 80% of the time PvP is normal and almost "balanced." (There can never be true balance until everyone's stats and class are the same).

More to the point, and I'm sure this will come off as rude, but you personally don't have the time to play an MMO. It sucks, and I think not having the time for an MMO would be terrible, but as you've described (being only 30 minutes at a time) you simply do not have enough time. 30 minutes is enough for 2 WZ's if they are back to back, but more than likely it's 1 wz and 5-10 minutes waiting. 30 minutes is barely enough time to do a daily run in the Black Hole or Illum, without doing the heroics. 30 minutes isn't even enough time to do most flashpoints.
Oh, so casual players with RL jobs and responsibilities need not play...MMOs are only for the unmarried, unemployed, and unencumbered who can devote 22 hours out of the day for gaming?

Got it.

Seems to me that this attitude might be at the heart of the whole PUG vs. Premade issue.

Knockerz's Avatar

11.04.2012 , 09:02 PM | #360
The only way to solve this problem if it is a problem yet is not allow group queuing into the normal pvp queue. I doubt it BW/EA will do any thing about it unless their statistics show a decline in pvp participation due to premades in the normal warzone queue, which will affect their profits. It's that simple.

Now if premades want to rolfstomp players how about casual players just bot like wow. It's not like BW/EA will ban you considering their financial state. That's why in WoW your starting to see the normal queue full of bots.Both EA and Activision are between a rock and a hard place.
Fiery the angels fell; deep thunder rolled around their shores; burning with the fires of Orc