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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

alexzk's Avatar


alexzk
11.04.2012 , 02:46 PM | #341
dunno, I may do pvp 20hrs a day, but I dont bother to find a team/guild/whatever. I enjoy fight, thats all I need. I don't want to wait while somebody smokes nor I want to force somebody waiting smoking me. That's the question of freedom. I want to do what I want and most important - when I want.

So I'm just good to play PuGs VS PuGs.

MMO means for me that If I'm in right place at the right time somebody will help me or I will help somebody, nothing more I expect.
There is no ignorance - there is knowledge.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.04.2012 , 02:54 PM | #342
Quote: Originally Posted by alexzk View Post
dunno, I may do pvp 20hrs a day, but I dont bother to find a team/guild/whatever. I enjoy fight, thats all I need. I don't want to wait while somebody smokes nor I want to force somebody waiting smoking me. That's the question of freedom. I want to do what I want and most important - when I want.

So I'm just good to play PuGs VS PuGs.

MMO means for me that If I'm in right place at the right time somebody will help me or I will help somebody, nothing more I expect.
Fair enough. Freedom is good, but it has a price. You are free at this moment to queue up solo, the price is a lower winning chance/higher chance of have 7 other brain dead players on your team.

Removing the option to team queue (or splitting it) removes the freedom of choice from someone else. Now they must choose either not to play with friends, or take longer queue times or uneven matches. Under the current system, 1-4 people can queue up and play without any restriction on their choice.

(Has anyone considered what happens if a team of 3 or 2 queue's up? Without a few pugs to fill the spaces, now you'll have 6 vs. 8 more often, or even longer queue's as the game tries to balance teams of 2, 3, and 4.)

Edit: As a side note, most people are more than happy to wait 5 minutes for you to smoke, but if you don't feel like inconviencing them, tell them to queue without you. My guild has several smokers, and sometimes they make the pop, sometimes they don't. Never seen anyone mad that they missed one WZ or have to wait 5 minutes for the team to finish.

DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
11.04.2012 , 03:42 PM | #343
Wow the pugstompers are out in force.

Look this game's pvp is HORRIBLE for GOOD players that like to premade. It is great for mediocre players in good gear that like to premade but there really aren't as many of you out there as there are casuals and good players combined.

In primetime there can be a bunch of premades running on both sides but with the current system they will face pugs more often than they will face eachother.

PREMADE MATCHING DOES NOT MEAN THAT PREMADES NEVER GET TO PVP UNLESS THEY ARE FACING ANOTHER PREMADE!!!!!!!

A good premade matching system tries to match up premades and will sometimes make them wait a few extra minutes to get into a match. If it is much longer than that then they get to fight a pug. So now the premade either gets a good match against another premade (should be more fun and COMPETITIVE than pugstomping) or waits a few minutes (not long) and fights a pug.

This is great for all types of players EXCEPT the people that need to constantly pugstomp for some reason. There are many reasons that these people have but most of them are bad and more importantly these people don't make up a majority of subscribers (if they did then this wouldn't be an issue lol).

So now casuals would have more chance for even matches and (more importantly for me) people that want good premade matches can premade again.

It is not a get friends issue. Pugstomping is horribly boring for most decent players that have decent irl's and no major emotional issues.

Also again in the offpeak times if the system is good and realizes a lot of premades aren't q'n up then a premade will go right up against a pug so the premade doesn't have to wait long.

Also, while I'm at it I'd love cross server and mixed faction teams (when needed). This would help premade matching out a lot since then if there are 2 premades on 1 faction only q'n up then both could be with 4 pugs.

Kalfear's Avatar


Kalfear
11.04.2012 , 03:44 PM | #344
*this is in no way a response to DarthRaika above post as we posted at basically same time so didnt see his/her well written and common sense response above my post here*

You know, its funny how the Bads keep saying PUGs are not a team.

Last time I looked, PUGs still consisted of multiple players coming togather on the same side as a

wait for it

almost there

drum roll please

TEAM!

OMG, what a earth shattering statement!

Yes, WZs in this game require a team and team work.
And thats what happens when a PUG is formed.
You Bads that try to insist PVP needs to be a job and a serious no fun activity seem to not quite comprehend what PUG stands for

PICK UP GROUP!

Queueing solo doesnt mean your solo in the WZ
Your still apart of a TEAM.

Just getting bored of the backwards/upside down nonsense the fans of pre mades trying to pass off as logic here with them saying the same stupid lines over and over like they cure all answers when really they just self absorbed BS.

Show me on the box or in the FAQ where it states you will be required to form a pre made for the WZs and have to run voice communication, stat stacking min maxing, and selective group design to partake in normal war zones.

It doesnt exist so your so call statements are just more nonsense from selfish selfish selfish players who are far to impressed with themselves (no one else seems to be overly impressed btw)

Pre made doesnt instantly mean good either btw.
I find most of the pre mades in unranked warzones are only there as they the worst of the pre mades and cant handle ranked. They the ones getting rolled there so they come to unranked to stack every conceivable advantage possible in their favor in hopes they can do the steam rolling.

And it works until by fluke the PUGS get a equally geared PUG formation and suddenly the Pre made is back to being slaughtered and farmed themselves.

Its also hillarious that the bads keep telling the PUGs to make friends to make their own pre mades (worsening the issue rather then fixing issue btw) in one breath yet on other side of mouth say they cant form a 8 man ranked group for ranked.

What? Your friends list suddenly stops at 3 other names? Gathering 7 names is to much challenge for you?

I do 8 man ops 3-4 times a week.
Why cant you find 7 others to form a 8 man ranked group?

FACT IS the entire list of excuses by the BAD that run pre mades in the solo queue doesnt hold up to even distant inspection, much less close inspection. Its just more BS excuses by players that think they are great but really just the bottom feeders of their play style.

LOTS of pre mades dont step foot in unranked wzs anymore (with their fully geared out characters).
LOTS of pre mades run weekly (or even more often) ranked groups for their big guys and choose to play lesser geared alts for the unranked queue.
Its only really a small percentage that require every possible advantage thinkable to run in the unranked. Thats why its the exact same groups day after day after day doing it.
And yeah, they are the TRUE BADS in this game at pvp

Good players, BEST PLAYERS look for a challenge and competition.
Kiddies and mental midgets look to greif others that cant fight back consistently.
In regards to lessening F2P and Preferred restrictions
In GAMING, as in LIFE,
You get what you pay for
No game restriction is so dire that $15.00/month will not eliminate it

MelodicSixNine's Avatar


MelodicSixNine
11.04.2012 , 03:47 PM | #345
Quote:
Why is it so difficult to form your own team?
People are lazy, don't want to deal with waiting and many more reasons like friends/guildies being offline. Picking up randoms is pretty tiring task too(you invite someone and after ~5 minutes they show up in recruit gear near the daily terminal or they are not on fleet so you can;'t check their gear...). I always try to group, but it's not doable 100% of time.

BW could just add 4-man groups(no less,no more. 4-man and 8-man only will be easier for the system to find groups and match them together) to ranked and it will be much easier to form a party and ranked que will pop faster. Adding a daily(win x2 no playx4 times because undergeared people would start joining RWZ for comms) to RWZ would gather more people too..... OR JUST IMPLEMENT THAT FREAKING CROSS SERVER THINGY, BioWare

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.04.2012 , 03:51 PM | #346
Kalfear says:

Quote: Originally Posted by Kalfear View Post
Just getting bored of the backwards/upside down nonsense the fans of pre mades trying to pass off as logic here with them saying the same stupid lines over and over like they cure all answers when really they just self absorbed BS.
Doomsdaycomes: "So your upset Im consistant and dont change my mind with the weather?"


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That being said, I've never spoken against a proper matchmaking system. I've only reminded people it will drive up queue times unless the population is increased (Ie. Cross server queue'ing.)

Where I take issue, is the concept of a Solo-queue only bracket. Matchmaking good, gear gap bad. Reducing the amount of options someone has to play BAD. Atm 1-4 players (solo or premade) can queue play in non-ranked, meaning shorter queue times for all. Split queue's with a restricter of solo -or- team is bad.

<.< that make sense?

MelodicSixNine's Avatar


MelodicSixNine
11.04.2012 , 03:54 PM | #347
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Split queue's with a restricter of solo -or- team is bad.
Unless majority of the server solo queues

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.04.2012 , 04:06 PM | #348
Quote: Originally Posted by MelodicSixNine View Post
Unless majority of the server solo queues
Nah... look at it this way:

We all agree something in an MMO being inclusive is a good thing right? If a flashpoint specifically excludes a class (No Sages on this FP, sorry!) it's badly designed, right?

Now, the solo-only queue option is exclusive. A game mechanic prohibits people from playing with their friends (except by dumb luck of landing on the same team.)

The current system is flawed, but it's still inclusive. It doesn't prohibit the single players from joining, it doesn't prohibit teams from joining. That's where a matchmaking system, better population, etc... would help. Ranked being exclusive (requiring 8) is a bad system, and would relieve the situation of PuG's vs WH teams (which isn't as bad as people claim) if it were made more inclusive.

Does this make sense?

SammuelSK's Avatar


SammuelSK
11.04.2012 , 04:10 PM | #349
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Take of your rage cap for a moment and try to understand some logic here. Ranked takes 8 people per side, 16 in total. Normal takes 1-4 people, making up 7-8 per side, 14-16 total. Thus, for someone to play ranked, they must get and maintain 7 other people, and have someone else do the same on the other team. It stands to reason, that ranked is less likely to pop because -exactly- 16 (8 and 8) people need to be available and in the queue.

Now, as people love to tell me, we all have lives. When we log on to play, 8 players is harder to maintain then 4. When we have 8, we form up and queue for ranked. We may or may not get a pop, and after while we then also queue for normal. The time frame that we can maintain 8 is a lot lower than the time frame someone else can maintain 2-4.



Your obvious rage cap continues to be on. You continue to assume players in "premades" can't handle ranked, not that it is slow to pop, it may be bugged, or they can't field 8 people 100% of the time. Notice in normal, nothing stops a solo player from joining a match, they simply have odds stacked against them. In ranked, you -can not- queue with less than 8.

Also, if you're feeling like nothing more than a punching bag 90% of the time, I suggest the issue lies within yourself. Even as a PuG, I feel capable of having some sort of impact 90% of the time.



The problem isn't with a more level playing field, the problem comes down to solo-players in this forum wanting to exclude those who have friends. Matchmaking (with a proper population, see cross-server queuing) that tried to even the field would be fine. A PuG only queue would not be.

Secondly, teaming up is part of the learning to play experience. There are multiple levels of game play, all of which contribute to being a good player. ToR pvp is team oriented, so if player A has learned to play on a team, they are better than player B who has not. It is a simple concept.

People continue to call into question my abilities. I'll freely admit I am not a great duelist. My reflexes aren't the fastest, I forget my consumables often, etc... However, on a team I'm adept at watching other's health. I'm very good at situational awareness, and it's easy for me to predict what the enemy team will do. I'm often half way to the other node/door when the INC call goes out. I also work well with a follow dps, focusing fire, watching (or predicting) when they will Stun vs. Mezz, etc...

In the strive to get better, I'm working on my 1 vs 1 capabilities, both in duels and in wz's. Now then, someone answer my question:

Why is it so difficult to form your own team?
I've posted this in a pervious thread to your comment as well. So will repost it here for your enjoyment.

Ranked warzones had no problem filling when they were introduced. Then those players started losing to better teams. Now they don't queue up, or don't have enough of a roster to fill them so they farm pugs in smaller groups.

The problem isn't the math, its the so called competative pvp players. You HAD the players to queue up for premades, you lost them.

Secondly, in a pervious post that was ignored by you and everyone else in this thread I brought up the point of GW2. That game seperate PVP entirely. Ranked PVP exists as something groups queue up for together, join and win or lose depending on how well they play. Regular PVP exists as a seperate queue where people are put on random teams to face other random teams. Other games have done this as well, again ignored was AoC which switched up the way their PVP queues were handled and saw a tenfold improvement in queue times. Both games did well to realise that PUG vs Premade is not a viable form of PVP.

Long term this change will happen, it has to happen.

What makes me laugh is how much you all "rage" over this, something you accuse us of doing. You yourselves will not "find more players", "learn to communicate better", "get organized", etc. Yet somehow magically those very same arguements justify your attacks on players who see the logic of seperate queues.
Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller
We have very measurable statistics that tell us if people lose a certain number of Warzones in a row being stun locked by a team of Operatives, then that might be part of that, and they will be not as likely to re-subscribe.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.04.2012 , 04:19 PM | #350
Quote: Originally Posted by SammuelSK View Post
What makes me laugh is how much you all "rage" over this, something you accuse us of doing. You yourselves will not "find more players", "learn to communicate better", "get organized", etc. Yet somehow magically those very same arguements justify your attacks on players who see the logic of seperate queues.
Your comment about GW2 has been noted. As I am unfamiliar with that games setup of servers, cross-server queueing, and population, there is no comparison that can be drawn, but thank you for mentioning it.

I've only quoted the paragraph above for a very simple reason. If you are asking someone to do -more- work then you are willing to do yourself, you are lazy. Plain, Simple, Truth.

Until you stop being lazy and simplistic in your thinking, it is unlikely we can engage in an equal conversation.