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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

jprife's Avatar


jprife
11.04.2012 , 07:36 AM | #331
Quote: Originally Posted by Ramtar View Post
The problem is: Players give up too easy. When things get tough they quit.
That's not necessarily true. I was playing Alderaan CW with a PUG yesterday and we got smashed by a WH-equipped premade, with obvious full voice comms. The frustration was evident in Ops chat but not one of the group quit and went the distance with the whole miserable scenario. In my experience as a casual player (with RL family, job, dog, house, yard, etc), this is not the exception.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.04.2012 , 12:08 PM | #332
Since people have gotten side-tracked trying to find every possible scrub way to insult me, (Lol, btw, didn't work) perhaps I should restate the real issues.

The real issue is two fold.

First being that a solo only queue takes the team out of team play. No matter what the matchmaking system is, there should ways be an option to form your team. Team play is what ToR is based on, which is why there is no free-for-all match, no straight up death match. So moan all you like about gear gap (I hate it too, I just got over it), but getting rid of people playing together isn't the answer.

Second is population limits. Currently, most server's populations can't handle a split queue like that. Both Solo queue'rs and team players would suffer from extended queue times. I've seen people here say things like "so premades have longer waits? idc, I've got my solo queue." Well talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Not giving a **** about other people's wait times so you can be a 1 vs 1 Hero in Pug Wars is pretty damn low.

I don't believe I've said anything against a better matchmaking system, but until cross server queue's show up populations will suffer the longer the game takes to try and put together a match. That being said, even with a better matchmaking system, solo only brackets should never exist.

Now, can someone, anyone on the "1v1 Hero" defense force please give us an honest answer of why making a few friends is so hard?

MatticusFinch's Avatar


MatticusFinch
11.04.2012 , 12:17 PM | #333
On the contrary, premades are the only thing that can save non-ranked wzs because the pugs are awful.

Don't blame the premades on the other side, blame the lack of them on your side.
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filipesantana's Avatar


filipesantana
11.04.2012 , 01:16 PM | #334
There isnt a single good xcuse or justification for solo queue..any what so ever that makes sense.

one thing is solo queuing because ur bored and cba to group at that point...or u need a fast daily...or you are burning time for something.


now..WANTING to solo queu?! in an online mmo?!where interaction is necessary?



like i said...stop being socially awkward wierdos...not being able to be socialy active outside your house is one thing..but online??!?!?you need help



premades getting in one estimate time- 10-15 mins

pmaking your own premade depending on the gear/skill cap you require- 5-20 mins


so ye..no xcuse to not be in one,..


team...TEAM PLAY


solo----NOT TEAMplay

Dorpire's Avatar


Dorpire
11.04.2012 , 01:40 PM | #335
Quote: Originally Posted by filipesantana View Post
There isnt a single good xcuse or justification for solo queue..any what so ever that makes sense.

one thing is solo queuing because ur bored and cba to group at that point...or u need a fast daily...or you are burning time for something.


now..WANTING to solo queu?! in an online mmo?!where interaction is necessary?



like i said...stop being socially awkward wierdos...not being able to be socialy active outside your house is one thing..but online??!?!?you need help



premades getting in one estimate time- 10-15 mins

pmaking your own premade depending on the gear/skill cap you require- 5-20 mins


so ye..no xcuse to not be in one,..


team...TEAM PLAY


solo----NOT TEAMplay
...or maybe there are 1 or 2 ppl out that that have families/jobs/ etc that dont have a set schedule or hours a night to play...just maybe (I know it's hard for young/single/unemployed etc ppl to understand...... but usually I get on have 30 mins to play and solo que. That's everyday 30 mins here , 30 mins there, get the daily done and back to RL.

DegreesOfFreedom's Avatar


DegreesOfFreedom
11.04.2012 , 01:50 PM | #336
I disagree with you OP. I hope you don't take this the wrong way in attacking you personally, but you have to understand that the other side have a point. This game has a team based objective warzones, that means people have to work as a team. And that includes forming groups with your friends, or what you would call premades. And as much as you hate to see it, it is working as intended. From my perspective, the problem with what you are suggesting is that you are purposely gimping yourself from having a coordinated team. Solo queue in the game did not mean you just get put on a team and hope it works for the best, it also meant working with other people and forming friendship and respect and hopefully to play more together.

The real problem on the other hand is the lack of a matchmaking system that puts together players on an equal level of skill. GW2 has it, and most fps games has it. What it does is calculate your "skill" level based on how much you have played the game as well as your win/lose rate ratio and put you with players with the same level of skill. Does it mean you never get to see top skilled people in the game? of course not, you'll just be matched with them very rarely.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.04.2012 , 01:51 PM | #337
Quote: Originally Posted by Dorpire View Post
...or maybe there are 1 or 2 ppl out that that have families/jobs/ etc that dont have a set schedule or hours a night to play...just maybe (I know it's hard for young/single/unemployed etc ppl to understand...... but usually I get on have 30 mins to play and solo que. That's everyday 30 mins here , 30 mins there, get the daily done and back to RL.
Then not to be rude, but you really can't complain about anything. You don't have the time to see how common/uncommon a problem is. It's just as likely bad luck has caused your 30 minutes a day to be almost all smashed-by-WH-premade matches, while 80% of the time PvP is normal and almost "balanced." (There can never be true balance until everyone's stats and class are the same).

More to the point, and I'm sure this will come off as rude, but you personally don't have the time to play an MMO. It sucks, and I think not having the time for an MMO would be terrible, but as you've described (being only 30 minutes at a time) you simply do not have enough time. 30 minutes is enough for 2 WZ's if they are back to back, but more than likely it's 1 wz and 5-10 minutes waiting. 30 minutes is barely enough time to do a daily run in the Black Hole or Illum, without doing the heroics. 30 minutes isn't even enough time to do most flashpoints.

filipesantana's Avatar


filipesantana
11.04.2012 , 01:59 PM | #338
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Then not to be rude, but you really can't complain about anything. You don't have the time to see how common/uncommon a problem is. It's just as likely bad luck has caused your 30 minutes a day to be almost all smashed-by-WH-premade matches, while 80% of the time PvP is normal and almost "balanced." (There can never be true balance until everyone's stats and class are the same).

More to the point, and I'm sure this will come off as rude, but you personally don't have the time to play an MMO. It sucks, and I think not having the time for an MMO would be terrible, but as you've described (being only 30 minutes at a time) you simply do not have enough time. 30 minutes is enough for 2 WZ's if they are back to back, but more than likely it's 1 wz and 5-10 minutes waiting. 30 minutes is barely enough time to do a daily run in the Black Hole or Illum, without doing the heroics. 30 minutes isn't even enough time to do most flashpoints.

exactly..."i can only play 30 mins" so lets nerf premades!if you dont ahve time to play the game WONT be adjsuted to you...srsly.

SammuelSK's Avatar


SammuelSK
11.04.2012 , 02:14 PM | #339
Quote: Originally Posted by Doomsdaycomes View Post
Second is population limits. Currently, most server's populations can't handle a split queue like that. Both Solo queue'rs and team players would suffer from extended queue times. I've seen people here say things like "so premades have longer waits? idc, I've got my solo queue." Well talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Not giving a **** about other people's wait times so you can be a 1 vs 1 Hero in Pug Wars is pretty damn low.
I hear alot of attempts justification in this thread. Alot of for lack of better term ********. So let me ask you this... why aren't you group queuing in the ranked warzones, why are those not enough for the group PVP oriented? Oh right. They are too hard.. 9 out of 10 of you get your butts kicked. Its much easier to queue up, face pugs, and justify it on the forums instead of following your own advice and actually getting better.

PVP populations are small because the CC/Resolve continues to be broken. This is not Star Wars but Stun Wars. Premade vs Pug groupings furthure amplify the damage by creating the feeling that players have no ability to actually fight back, stun/stun/dead. So what do they end up doing? They do what you yourselves have done... find something easier to do. Why should pugs be punching bags for an inflated ego PVP population.. when most of you have run from actual organized group PVP for the very same reason?

I get though that this will not change any of your minds, hell.. most of you already know what you are doing is not going to work in the long term, F2P will change nothing if players continue to have no reason to queue up. So keep reaching for those low hanging fruit for as long as Bioware lets you, the rest of us will try to fix the game until we get bored of that as well.. but lets not kid ourselves.. you aren't trying to get any better then those pug players you keep screaming should "L2P". So pot meet kettle for real.
Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller
We have very measurable statistics that tell us if people lose a certain number of Warzones in a row being stun locked by a team of Operatives, then that might be part of that, and they will be not as likely to re-subscribe.

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.04.2012 , 02:42 PM | #340
Quote: Originally Posted by SammuelSK View Post
I hear alot of attempts justification in this thread. Alot of for lack of better term ********. So let me ask you this... why aren't you group queuing in the ranked warzones, why are those not enough for the group PVP oriented? Oh right. They are too hard.. 9 out of 10 of you get your butts kicked. Its much easier to queue up, face pugs, and justify it on the forums instead of following your own advice and actually getting better.
Take of your rage cap for a moment and try to understand some logic here. Ranked takes 8 people per side, 16 in total. Normal takes 1-4 people, making up 7-8 per side, 14-16 total. Thus, for someone to play ranked, they must get and maintain 7 other people, and have someone else do the same on the other team. It stands to reason, that ranked is less likely to pop because -exactly- 16 (8 and 8) people need to be available and in the queue.

Now, as people love to tell me, we all have lives. When we log on to play, 8 players is harder to maintain then 4. When we have 8, we form up and queue for ranked. We may or may not get a pop, and after while we then also queue for normal. The time frame that we can maintain 8 is a lot lower than the time frame someone else can maintain 2-4.

Quote: Originally Posted by SammuelSK View Post
PVP populations are small because the CC/Resolve continues to be broken. This is not Star Wars but Stun Wars. Premade vs Pug groupings furthure amplify the damage by creating the feeling that players have no ability to actually fight back, stun/stun/dead. So what do they end up doing? They do what you yourselves have done... find something easier to do. Why should pugs be punching bags for an inflated ego PVP population.. when most of you have run from actual organized group PVP for the very same reason?
Your obvious rage cap continues to be on. You continue to assume players in "premades" can't handle ranked, not that it is slow to pop, it may be bugged, or they can't field 8 people 100% of the time. Notice in normal, nothing stops a solo player from joining a match, they simply have odds stacked against them. In ranked, you -can not- queue with less than 8.

Also, if you're feeling like nothing more than a punching bag 90% of the time, I suggest the issue lies within yourself. Even as a PuG, I feel capable of having some sort of impact 90% of the time.

Quote: Originally Posted by SammuelSK View Post
I get though that this will not change any of your minds, hell.. most of you already know what you are doing is not going to work in the long term, F2P will change nothing if players continue to have no reason to queue up. So keep reaching for those low hanging fruit for as long as Bioware lets you, the rest of us will try to fix the game until we get bored of that as well.. but lets not kid ourselves.. you aren't trying to get any better then those pug players you keep screaming should "L2P". So pot meet kettle for real.
The problem isn't with a more level playing field, the problem comes down to solo-players in this forum wanting to exclude those who have friends. Matchmaking (with a proper population, see cross-server queuing) that tried to even the field would be fine. A PuG only queue would not be.

Secondly, teaming up is part of the learning to play experience. There are multiple levels of game play, all of which contribute to being a good player. ToR pvp is team oriented, so if player A has learned to play on a team, they are better than player B who has not. It is a simple concept.

People continue to call into question my abilities. I'll freely admit I am not a great duelist. My reflexes aren't the fastest, I forget my consumables often, etc... However, on a team I'm adept at watching other's health. I'm very good at situational awareness, and it's easy for me to predict what the enemy team will do. I'm often half way to the other node/door when the INC call goes out. I also work well with a follow dps, focusing fire, watching (or predicting) when they will Stun vs. Mezz, etc...

In the strive to get better, I'm working on my 1 vs 1 capabilities, both in duels and in wz's. Now then, someone answer my question:

Why is it so difficult to form your own team?