Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Statistics of OPs/IA penetration in WZs

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Statistics of OPs/IA penetration in WZs

tatatan's Avatar


tatatan
11.03.2012 , 12:55 PM | #1
Hello ladies and gentlebeings,
i decided to do little statistics today, as i played couple of warzones - so here we go:
Lo -lethality op
Co -concealment op
Mo -medic op
S -sniper (sniper play design is harder to recognize, so i just went with 'snipers')

No played normal WZ: 100
(max density per WZ is 8, 100%=800 - because of 100 played matches)

Lo = 0 >> chance to meet Lo in WZ = 0%
density = 0%
Co = 14 >> chance to meet Co in WZ = 14%
density = 1.75%
Mo = 56 >> chance to meet Mo in WZ = 56%
density = 7%
S = 55 >> chance to meet Sniper in WZ = 55%
density = 6.9%

Conclusion:
DPS OPs are very rare, with Lethality non-existant, few concealments. Snipers and Ops heals are fine.
Now, i new it was bad, but when you actutally start to do the numbers, you just see, how bad it is.
This is for everyone, saying, we're (DPS) fine and nothing needs to be done. I actually saw Mercenaries, that are considered very bad class in PvP atm. Lethality? None. Go figgure.

Edited - i will edit this personal statistics as i play more through the week.

RyanReagan's Avatar


RyanReagan
11.05.2012 , 04:34 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by tatatan View Post
Hello ladies and gentlebeings,
i decided to do little statistics today, as i played couple of warzones - so here we go:
Lo -lethality op
Co -concealment op
Mo -medic op
S -sniper (sniper play design is harder to recognize, so i just went with 'snipers')

No played normal WZ: 38
Lo = 0
Co = 4
Mo = 17
S = 25

Conclusion:
DPS OPs are very rare beasts, with Lethality non-existant, few concealments. Snipers and Ops heals are fine.
Now, i new it was bad, but when you actutally start to do the numbers, you just see, how bad it is.
This is for everyone, saying, we're (DPS) fine and nothing needs to be done. I actually saw Mercenaries, that are considered very bad class in PvP atm. Lethality? None. Go figgure.

Edited - i will edit this personal statistics as i play more through the week.
Lethality Operative is pretty much a PvE spec. Long setup time (two dots and getting a TA). Most people don't survive that long in PvP. You won't even get KB's to generate more TA most of the time. Put it away.
Concealment is good, but the burst was toned down and probably will not be touched for a while. You get 1 4-5k opener and then meh. Compared to 2 4-5k railshots every 6 seconds. But it is generally a utility class with the ability to offheal and stealth guard.
Medic OP is great survivability. Evasion for ranged/melee and shield probe for tech/force.
Snipers one of the best DPS classes in the game.
C.K. <Infinite Darkness> S.N. <Infinite Darkness> K.R. <Infinite Darkness> C.K. <Infinite Darkness>

tatatan's Avatar


tatatan
11.06.2012 , 04:14 AM | #3
Hi,
Have a look on our DPS trees from perspective of Raiding and doing Rated WZs.
Have a look on my statistic - numbers speak for themselves. Average of Leth Ops per 41 WZs: so far ZERO. Why should i shut up? I want to be loud at least like Mercenaries are. And they are already getting dev attention. Ppl here on our forum just say 'we're fine and then go play their marauder. Stop saying we're fine, we are NOT.

Lethality
- PVE - not good enough, i'd replace myself with leth. sniper anytime
- PVP? terribad - basically you can run around, keep Poison Darted everyone, help healers offheal. If you go in for shiv, you're destroyed by melee classes. You're slowed, stunned => your TA stack with funny 10 seconds timer is gone, you're just joke

Concealment
-PVE -basically same, not good enough dps
-PVP - better than Lethality, at least ppl dont see you in stealth, while Lethality stealth is (again) joke

POPsi's Avatar


POPsi
11.07.2012 , 08:13 AM | #4
haven't seen lethality/concealment ops for 2 weeks now neither in pvp or pve. Actually in our guild I'm the only operative (healer), rest of the healerz are sorcerers (and 1 merc). At least we have 2 dps mercs around.

So suming up, I agree, OP trees (except the healer one ) are anything but fine.

RyanReagan's Avatar


RyanReagan
11.07.2012 , 09:59 AM | #5
I think the dps could use buffs, but I don't think it is totally unusable in PvP.

Maybe you're just not very good at it? I always put up top numbers on my concealment operative when he's not a medic operative.
C.K. <Infinite Darkness> S.N. <Infinite Darkness> K.R. <Infinite Darkness> C.K. <Infinite Darkness>

tatatan's Avatar


tatatan
11.07.2012 , 01:09 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by RyanReagan View Post
I think the dps could use buffs, but I don't think it is totally unusable in PvP.

Maybe you're just not very good at it? I always put up top numbers on my concealment operative when he's not a medic operative.

Standardized answer no.00X L2P. LOL. Do you actually play DPS Ops? From your answer it seams like you're switched to heals? Why?
Open your eyes, look around and tell me how many DPS ops you see in the swarms of assassins, juggernauts, marauders ...?
I play Lethality from game start, because i like the mechanics, but even if i work my a** out, i cant pull same numbers like other DPS classes. Ergo, i hurt my team. Do you see the logic?
If i go to melee range, i'm destroyed by AoE lolsmashers and i wont receive heals. Why? Because it's better to heal marauder than me. I'm focused. Why? Because at melee, i'm easily destroyed by true melle classes ... dispatched like weak mob - first.
Believe me, after almost year playing Lethality i know my chores and yet i do NOT benefice my team, like e.g. playing Juggernaut.
I actually started to play tank Juggernaut. In BM gear i pull 150-350 protection in PUGs easy (350 not that easy actually ). I have utilities that really benefit my team greatly. I make difference. As Lethality Op, i'm neither. Even if i do great, i'm still mediocre help to team. Even though having Warhero full modded stuff. Elite weapons. Still. not. good. enough.
Thats why i started this my personal statistics, to see if there are other colleagues Leth ops around. There is none.
Do you now say to all those ppl that stopped playing DPS Ops to L2P?
No. Anyone, who made it past 80 valor with DPS OP has to LOVE the spec.
Anyone like that will do (and does) greatly on other classes (like me on Jugg).

Enough is said, numbers wont lie. I'll make it to 100 WZs watched (already have another 11 to post and will do more through rest of week and mainly on weekend).

RyanReagan's Avatar


RyanReagan
11.07.2012 , 02:24 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by tatatan View Post

Standardized answer no.00X L2P. LOL. Do you actually play DPS Ops? From your answer it seams like you're switched to heals? Why?
Open your eyes, look around and tell me how many DPS ops you see in the swarms of assassins, juggernauts, marauders ...?
I play Lethality from game start, because i like the mechanics, but even if i work my a** out, i cant pull same numbers like other DPS classes. Ergo, i hurt my team. Do you see the logic?
If i go to melee range, i'm destroyed by AoE lolsmashers and i wont receive heals. Why? Because it's better to heal marauder than me. I'm focused. Why? Because at melee, i'm easily destroyed by true melle classes ... dispatched like weak mob - first.
Believe me, after almost year playing Lethality i know my chores and yet i do NOT benefice my team, like e.g. playing Juggernaut.
I actually started to play tank Juggernaut. In BM gear i pull 150-350 protection in PUGs easy (350 not that easy actually ). I have utilities that really benefit my team greatly. I make difference. As Lethality Op, i'm neither. Even if i do great, i'm still mediocre help to team. Even though having Warhero full modded stuff. Elite weapons. Still. not. good. enough.
Thats why i started this my personal statistics, to see if there are other colleagues Leth ops around. There is none.
Do you now say to all those ppl that stopped playing DPS Ops to L2P?
No. Anyone, who made it past 80 valor with DPS OP has to LOVE the spec.
Anyone like that will do (and does) greatly on other classes (like me on Jugg).

Enough is said, numbers wont lie. I'll make it to 100 WZs watched (already have another 11 to post and will do more through rest of week and mainly on weekend).
I play both Concealment Op and Medic Op. Depends on how many healers we have online. I am valor 95 on that guy, so I've spent plenty of time doing both in ranked warzones. Neither one is my "main spec" as I have great gear for either spec I'm using.

Numbers are stupid. Yes you aren't going to get a 6k smash. Get over it, I'm jealous too.. I'm going to agree with you that Operative could use some TLC. But marauder and sniper are both pure dps classes. They have no offheals offtaunts. I'll explain more why numbers are stupid at the end.

My two asks:
Fix energy consumption to put us inline with similarly geared classes.
Make AoE taunts/cc/slows/snares not affect us when in stealth

Now. On to the important point. LETHALITY IS NOT A PVP CLASS. It is based on AoE DoTs. No good teams use DoTs because they break mez's, which are some of the longest AoE CC''s in the game.

Numbers are STUPID because I can run around throwing corrosive grenade off every cooldown and have great damage numbers. (I've done it, I've played lethality plenty because it is the ultimate juggling act of all the ACs).

Your class has weaknesses and strengths. Some maps play to them, some don't. Some players play to them some don't. You are a stealthy stabby class, not a "RUN INTO EVERYTHING AND SMASH" class.
C.K. <Infinite Darkness> S.N. <Infinite Darkness> K.R. <Infinite Darkness> C.K. <Infinite Darkness>

tatatan's Avatar


tatatan
11.07.2012 , 04:15 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by RyanReagan View Post

Numbers are stupid...
...
LETHALITY IS NOT A PVP CLASS.
1. numbers are not stupid - if you refer to my statistic, if you refer to WZs, then in some to some degree maybe
2. let me correct you: '... is not viable pvp clas..'
but let's assume you're right, then i call it flawed in design and i want see it fixed - or you wanted to say game designers designed some tree to not to be PVP viable? hardly think so

CaptainApop's Avatar


CaptainApop
11.08.2012 , 06:26 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by tatatan View Post
1. numbers are not stupid - if you refer to my statistic, if you refer to WZs, then in some to some degree maybe
2. let me correct you: '... is not viable pvp clas..'
but let's assume you're right, then i call it flawed in design and i want see it fixed - or you wanted to say game designers designed some tree to not to be PVP viable? hardly think so
You've mixed up causality on your second point.

Dev's designed a healer, a burster and dot based tree.
Healer heals - np
Burster bursts - always going to be synonymous with pvp. Lethality could be provably on par with concealment, people would still say concealment is the tree to use.
Dot'er - could do perfectly sensible damage but the fact is he's built to dot everything for energy and his dots last 30 ish seconds. Anything he doesn't kill becomes effectively immune to mezzes for half a minute. It's a tertiary effect that makes lethality/other DOT'ers undesirable in organised pvp.

---Otherwise they're probably the most mobile operative between evasion, shorter CD CC breaker, root/snare breaking countermeasures AND a tech cleanse (not to mention infiltrator if they pick it up). Which on paper doesn't sound half bad. I'm rather certain devs intended lethality to be viable. It's the meta game that reacted and kicked them out.

Conversely for example if concealment and/or deception assasins became FOTM lethality would be a ringer. It's annoying as **** to restealth if a lethality agent hits you. You need to dispel twice or be knocked out.
"I bind kolto probes to Q, partially for the convenience but mostly for the irony"

Subterfuge legacy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd

tatatan's Avatar


tatatan
11.08.2012 , 08:33 AM | #10
Hi,
i'm sorry, i dont get you. You're talking no sense. I'm talking about need to fix something, proving it with fact, that almost none people play the class tree(s).
While you say "all is fine, move along", while you say how many utilities Lethality has, how shiny it is?? Stop joking. If Leth is such great , then we have couple of servers full of dumb ppl who cant recognize good class ....

T2P Lethality (try), make couple of WZs with it ..
.. oh i'm so sorry, but its NOT the PVP class, so you cant .... but wait, you said, it has so many PVP utilities .... so in the end it is FINE???.... PVE class with so many PVP utilities??? LOL

According to you:
So we have here PVE class with so many nice PVP utilities, making it completely **FINE**.
./sarcasm off

This is my last response to you on this matter. You refuse see facts, your choice, i do not care. DPS trees on OPs need some work, Lethality most.