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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?
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DarthBloodloss's Avatar


DarthBloodloss
11.02.2012 , 01:01 PM | #101
To be honest, I dont even want an ESACPE. I want freaking instant cast Power Shots (and Tracer Missile). When I go heads up with a melee, here is an approximation of the fight:

The first round involves leaps/snares/roots on me. I try to use KB/Stun/Shielding to escape. Usually I take some damage but also begin to kite at this point.

Now I pop off all my instant casts: Incendiary Missile, Thermal Detonator, Rail Shot, Power Surged Fusion Missile. That will actually do a nice chunk of damage but from here on out I'm just running and using Rapid Shots until one of us dies.

I need mobile (instant cast) POWER SHOTS so that way I'm not just tickling people as I kite them. The fight rarely lasts long enough for Thermal and Raishot to come off cooldown. One of us will be dead by then.
Bloodloss Mercenary
DESTROYER OF WORLDS || KEEPER OF SOULS

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.02.2012 , 01:57 PM | #102
To get back on topic, since debating whether commando/merc needs help is pointless (since BW even admitted it), I had some thoughts for potential changes. While I'm still hopeful for an escape, perhaps they would be better off redesigning some skills to make us more tanky, rather than making us more running and mobile like a sorc. (Let's be honest, it doesn't -feel- like we're in havy armor, despite that being part of the iconic look and feel of the class/mirror).

1. Redisgn Counter-Measures so it is not only an aggro dump, but a defensive tool. I'd either go with some kind of CC/Leap/Pull immunity for 3-4 seconds, or a tech/force immunity for 3-4 seconds. Naturally the CD should be 90 seconds or so. Since we're not talking about high mobility here, it's unlikely you'll see a merc jump the fire pit while immune to tech, and sprint into a goal line.

2. Reserve Power Cell should not only reduce ammo cost, but also provide intterupt immunity to any designated cast. Instead of being a useless "free" cast usually paired with Tech override (so we don't forget we have it), now it's a tool that can turn the tides in a pinch. If there are complaints about healers using it, simply make it a talented add on in the gunnery tree (being the tree that needs it the most.)

3. I can't even remember the name of that crappy self heal we get, but either remove it and replace, or add some kind of benefit onto it. Could be a full out self heal like sorcs got with an added crappy HoT, or I'd prefer some kind of defense boost while it's active.

T-Assassin's Avatar


T-Assassin
11.02.2012 , 02:23 PM | #103
BH needs more defensive CD's.

i don't want to "escape". i'm heavy armor, heavy guns...i should be a walking "arsenal", so to speak (even tho i play Merc/PT).

something very similar to marauders, for example.

1. a shield that actually shields damage. similar to marauders or assassin shield.
2. a flashbang that temporarily blinds opponents. i.e. 3-4 second stealth or stun(like operative/smuggler)
3. an improved way to apply fire DoT. something similar to PT/Van fire burst/ion pulse that will make rail shot more consistant.
4. increased speed, something similar to hold the line, that will make us helpful utility. node to node defense.
5. 30m range on all abilities. right now, our only good defense is our range, and even that is limited.
6. uniterruptable when afore mentioned shield is activated.

personally, i'm pretty happy with my damage output. it could use a slight bump in terms of BURST, but sustained damage is pretty good where it is.

seriously, whoever is testing and making decisions needs a stern talking to. do they even play the game?? with other actual players??

any semi-competent pvp'r understands the OP-ness (funny if you say it aloud) of marauders, assassins (tank spec), and snipers, and their mirrors.

the only class i feel i am on par with is Sorcs, now that i have an interrupt. and i base that on skilled player vs. skilled player.

i will hang on one more time for this fix. if it done incorrectly, this will be my final straw. i do not want to be FotM, i want to compete and be a contibutor in PvP. not a mark.

there are so many good ideas in these forums, please put them to use.
"Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur."
"Today is a good day for someone else to die." -

AsiriusNazriel's Avatar


AsiriusNazriel
11.02.2012 , 03:02 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by T-Assassin View Post
BH needs more defensive CD's.

i don't want to "escape". i'm heavy armor, heavy guns...i should be a walking "arsenal", so to speak (even tho i play Merc/PT).

something very similar to marauders, for example.

1. a shield that actually shields damage. similar to marauders or assassin shield.
2. a flashbang that temporarily blinds opponents. i.e. 3-4 second stealth or stun(like operative/smuggler)
3. an improved way to apply fire DoT. something similar to PT/Van fire burst/ion pulse that will make rail shot more consistant.
4. increased speed, something similar to hold the line, that will make us helpful utility. node to node defense.
5. 30m range on all abilities. right now, our only good defense is our range, and even that is limited.
6. uniterruptable when afore mentioned shield is activated.

personally, i'm pretty happy with my damage output. it could use a slight bump in terms of BURST, but sustained damage is pretty good where it is.

seriously, whoever is testing and making decisions needs a stern talking to. do they even play the game?? with other actual players??

any semi-competent pvp'r understands the OP-ness (funny if you say it aloud) of marauders, assassins (tank spec), and snipers, and their mirrors.

the only class i feel i am on par with is Sorcs, now that i have an interrupt. and i base that on skilled player vs. skilled player.

i will hang on one more time for this fix. if it done incorrectly, this will be my final straw. i do not want to be FotM, i want to compete and be a contibutor in PvP. not a mark.

there are so many good ideas in these forums, please put them to use.
So you want to be a Marauder, with ranged DPS, with a healing tree, who can spec into it for quick heals, as well as a heavy armor tank.

That's a nice dream. I once had a dream that Marauders were a ranged class, alas it is still a dream.
Pax Imperius & Pax Dominus
Arash a.k.a. "Chuck Norris of PVP"

T-Assassin's Avatar


T-Assassin
11.02.2012 , 03:12 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by iamef View Post
For a while I have been replying to many threads about the Commando/Merc AC in support of where it is now, with what I thought were some pretty good ideas and techniques for the class. I have always been very successful from a DPS perspective, and by fighting from the edges vs. being on top of objectives, I've usually survived fairly well enough until I had to get in the mix or been jumped, where I would admittedly, die rather more quickly than some other classes. Perhaps I've been, as I've seen someway say "a great player wasted on a poor class.."

However, I have to say even I have become disillusioned. While I am happy to see Bioware is looking into our "escapability," I have to say the idea of a commando being very effective at LOS and pillar hugging 1v1 is laughable. it actually makes me think of some encounters with Sorcs I have had lately.. Being able to root and force speed around a pillar 15m away and dropping an instant self heal is good escapability... Being able to walk around a pillar and start your casted self heal just as that melee rounds the corner and ravages you is not!

It really does seem that all other classes have both better ways of either A) keeping you in thier kill zone via roots, snares, leaps, etc. or B) escaping from an encounter that is going the wrong way via damage reduction cooldowns, stealth exiting combat, roots, snares and force speed away.

I think what really killed it for me was that I used to believe our AoE (even if it is channeled) was awesome. Tech Override > Plasma Grenade > Mortar Volley. About 6k+ in damage each to 3 or 4 targets in about 4.5 seconds, and I can do it every 30 seconds (2 mins for the tech override though to make plasma instant). But then: Smash! Same damage. Instantly. Uninterruptible. Every 15 seconds or less. And the leap effectively makes it a 10m ranged ability.

Really?
this is EXACTLY how i feel. start to finish.

Played Merc FIREBUG (Pyrotech to you newbies :P) in Beta. Server 1st BM on MZL, as an assassin...only reason i didn't roll a BH at launch was because i told myslef in Beta, "if they don't have that Crimson Mando armor on the Imp vendor, i'm not playing a BH..."

So...switched to BH, Merc/PT after 1.2, i felt robbed at the overnight BM's, so i rage shelved my assassin.

I should have played him, Merc/PT from launch i LOVE the class...it is me...it feels so natural, i don't have to look at my toolbars, i have all my hotkeys set-up so they became fluid playing the class. it was FUN...kept me playing after 1.2.

in 10-49 WZ's, i finished #1 in damage in all but 3 of my WZ's. (i have SS's that will blow your mind as a Merc/PT). i'm a pretty dang good merc...but, then again...i was a pretty good Assassin.

i was on the forums, trying my best to remain positive, going so far as to be in the "Merc is fine, L2P" category.

then, i got talked into rerolling a Marauder with a friend (while i leveled a Vanguard, solo. you should see THOSE SS"s)...

Merc is bad...REAL bad.

but, there are many GREAT ideas from many forum posters...

hopefully, it will get fixed before it is too late.
"Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur."
"Today is a good day for someone else to die." -

T-Assassin's Avatar


T-Assassin
11.02.2012 , 03:17 PM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by AsiriusNazriel View Post
So you want to be a Marauder, with ranged DPS, with a healing tree, who can spec into it for quick heals, as well as a heavy armor tank.

That's a nice dream. I once had a dream that Marauders were a ranged class, alas it is still a dream.


didn't remember saying i wanted ALL of those things, plus a gun...

i was just putting up a list of ideas...

if your looking for an argument, take it somewhere else...

or, at least be constructive when you judge.
"Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur."
"Today is a good day for someone else to die." -

AsiriusNazriel's Avatar


AsiriusNazriel
11.02.2012 , 04:21 PM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by T-Assassin View Post



didn't remember saying i wanted ALL of those things, plus a gun...

i was just putting up a list of ideas...

if your looking for an argument, take it somewhere else...

or, at least be constructive when you judge.
Agreed. Can't have everything you mentioned, but they are good ideas individually.
Pax Imperius & Pax Dominus
Arash a.k.a. "Chuck Norris of PVP"

Serpieri's Avatar


Serpieri
11.02.2012 , 04:25 PM | #108
Arsenal Mercs play very similar to Snipers Ė the difference is the Snipers have the tools to get the job done and mercs donít. Roots, Snares, Immunity to Leaps, and thatís not all. Itís no wonder why the Sniper is superior to a merc in every way.

Pyro Mercs are better known as the Poor Manís PowerTech Ė and until they are brought up to par they will forever be dwarfed by the superior AC. Pyro needs to kite to survive so give it the tools that it needs to get it done. Powershot must be changed to an instant cast and unload should be replaced by another ability and tied into PPA for the rail shot resets and also give them a reliable snare.

From here, the merc ac will also need improvements in defensive capabilities and added utility to earn them a place on a RWZ team. Many people have suggested an ability tied to a jetpack where the merc can disengage and fire a few shots while retreating. Energy Shield also needs to be improved.

Itís way past time for this AC to receive some massive changes Ė and not given changes that are pointless like taking away the knockback from rocket punch and giving the class a melee root which is beyond stupid for a ranged class to have. Until then, Iíll keep playing my marauder, powertech, juggernaut, sniper and I can only hope that those of you playing mercs finally get some much needed attention from the development team but from what I read from Austin Peckenpaugh, it's quite clear he has no idea what he's talking about.

Philastra's Avatar


Philastra
11.02.2012 , 04:29 PM | #109
Iplay Arsenal and for me if they wanna change somthing to make us better would be a better shield and increase the damage on rocket punch and jet boost.
It only takes one candle to scare away the dark, or just hire a Bounty Hunter....

DarthBloodloss's Avatar


DarthBloodloss
11.02.2012 , 05:37 PM | #110
I also think we would have better luck with suggesting improvements to existing abilities instead of dreaming up new cool stuff that they have to develop, etc.

Thats why I think we should focus on:
-Better Shield
-Better Kolto HoT
-Better Snare (same application is fine, just needs to be reliable)
-Insta-Cast Power Shot / Tracer
-Add some/all Tracer percs to Power Shot (to avoid being shut down so easily)(its a Ranged attack so its still inferior)
-Better effect(s) for Rocket Punch
-Uninterruptable Shield able to be used by Arsenal
-Cylinders Changeable on the move (to be used for off-heals while running to a different node, for example)
-Move some abilites down in the trees to upgrade hybrid builds from "unplayable" to "somewhat viable"

Additional abilites could be added to the Agro Dump Flare Thing, Stealth Scan, Jet Boost...

My wildest suggestion would be a leap, pretty much for fun but also would have small utility. Why not have a Jet Pack leap to a ground target, or to an enemy target, or to a friendly? I really don't put this on the main list because it would suck the credibility right out of the entire list. Its just my 1 crazy thing to suggest.
Bloodloss Mercenary
DESTROYER OF WORLDS || KEEPER OF SOULS