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BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
BW, do you ever plan on addressing DPS Mercs/Commandos PvP-wise?
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xxIncubixx's Avatar


xxIncubixx
11.01.2012 , 10:30 AM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by DashaAdair View Post
[Emphasis added] No and no. Not every AC/class should be mobile Stationary options should exist in more that one class Mercenaries and commandos should remain, primarily, stationary. There is a run an gun choice already. We don't need another one.
if it is supposed to be stationary then it needs the same tools of Sniper/gunslinger.

DashaAdair's Avatar


DashaAdair
11.01.2012 , 11:59 AM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by xxIncubixx View Post
if it is supposed to be stationary then it needs the same tools of Sniper/gunslinger.
It was, but they took them away in 1.4. Some mobility crazy developer made commandos schizophrenic. The change to Cryo Grenade and, for those that developed it, Knockback was a terrbile, inconsistent design choice. I said it before 1.4 came out and nothing in my experience so far makes me see it any differently. In fact the daily missions where the Esh-kha and Gand are thowing Cryo Grenades and stuns at 30m remind me of just how bad a decision they made as I run up to 10m to stun them back.

I put Knockback on my Stock Strike just because it dovetailed so nicely with the concept of being sationary. The orignal commando design concept was spot on.

They didn't touch the range of Gunsligers because they were stationary. They should have kept commandos the same for the same reason.

TyrellJonez's Avatar


TyrellJonez
11.01.2012 , 01:01 PM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
Hi everyone! I talked to Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Commandos and Mercenaries and their situation in PvP right now, and he had this to say:

I think it's fair to say that Mercenaries and Commandos have escape issues. Admittedly, they can be very hard to catch when used correctly to hug corners, but a lot of that "escapability" falls aside when attacked by multiple melee enemies, at which point they just aren't quite tough enough to sustain without further escapes. We have plans for the future that should give Mercenaries and Commandos better escapes in PvP.
ALL OF YOU ****. We got a response! take a minute and let that settle in. 600 pages and we got a response. Be glad they are finally taking notice instead of STILL ************ that they didn't give you ENOUGH of a response you were hoping for. Its better than silence.

That said, there are a ton of good ideas on the Merc/commando forums about fixes for survivability from movement speed increases to new defensive cooldowns. Personally Power Overrides in the Merc tree is a waste of space and can be rolled into other talents and can be replaced with someone actually useful to arsenal. Pyro Merc could honestly use a little love. Bodyguard is fine as far as i'm concerned.

Take away from that short post that we actually have HOPE where there previously was none.
If they don't wanna see the hood in me, be satisfied when you see the good in me

af_raptura's Avatar


af_raptura
11.01.2012 , 02:02 PM | #84
Jeez, don't be ungrateful. Nothing is set in stone yet. They might have a few good ideas, they might not. You don't know that yet. Neither do I. Maybe we should wait on some patchnotes before disparaging them.
PvE theorycrafting has really loosened their standards.
Quote: Originally Posted by karlwaite View Post
As for the skill changes to benefit pvp likes of the fly by damage reduction they suffered and reducing focused defence by 200% is a joke they are affecting pve to benefit pvp.

PoliteAssasin's Avatar


PoliteAssasin
11.01.2012 , 03:31 PM | #85
Merc/Mando dps is fine. I don't know why you guys are complaining, they're not supposed to be the best. 1v1 class, shadow dps tank hybrids are. (And their imperial equivalent.). There was a merc on my old server who was the best I've seen yet. Everyone hated fighting this guy because he was so good. He didn't complain like a lot of mercs do today, he did the best with his class and took it to its maximum potential. Same with a commando on my current server. He's not the best 1v1er, but if you don't notice that he's targeting you you'll be dead in merely a few seconds. Snipers are similar. Combat/carnage dual weilders are similar. Not the best survivability, not the best duelists, but if they catch you in a group you're going to melt. Many people fail to understand that this is a team oriented game, whether it be ops or pvp. That is the function of this class, team support. The good ones know this and excel because of it. Others expect to be lone wolves them complain when they die. Learn to play as a team and you'll notice that you survive longer than if you were trying to 1v1 someone.
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Phasersablaze's Avatar


Phasersablaze
11.01.2012 , 03:51 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliteAssasin View Post
Merc/Mando dps is fine. I don't know why you guys are complaining, they're not supposed to be the best. 1v1 class, shadow dps tank hybrids are. (And their imperial equivalent.). There was a merc on my old server who was the best I've seen yet. Everyone hated fighting this guy because he was so good. He didn't complain like a lot of mercs do today, he did the best with his class and took it to its maximum potential. Same with a commando on my current server. He's not the best 1v1er, but if you don't notice that he's targeting you you'll be dead in merely a few seconds. Snipers are similar. Combat/carnage dual weilders are similar. Not the best survivability, not the best duelists, but if they catch you in a group you're going to melt. Many people fail to understand that this is a team oriented game, whether it be ops or pvp. That is the function of this class, team support. The good ones know this and excel because of it. Others expect to be lone wolves them complain when they die. Learn to play as a team and you'll notice that you survive longer than if you were trying to 1v1 someone.
So you are saying Mercs shouldn't be top DPS and shouldn't be able to 1V1 either. So we are just supposed to be terrible all around then hmm?

Cute coming from a hybrid Sin.

Chaoskyx's Avatar


Chaoskyx
11.01.2012 , 05:24 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by politeassasin View Post
that is the function of this class, team support.
We're worse than most - if not all - other classes at that, too.

AsiriusNazriel's Avatar


AsiriusNazriel
11.01.2012 , 05:32 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliteAssasin View Post
Merc/Mando dps is fine. I don't know why you guys are complaining, they're not supposed to be the best. 1v1 class, shadow dps tank hybrids are. (And their imperial equivalent.). There was a merc on my old server who was the best I've seen yet. Everyone hated fighting this guy because he was so good. He didn't complain like a lot of mercs do today, he did the best with his class and took it to its maximum potential. Same with a commando on my current server. He's not the best 1v1er, but if you don't notice that he's targeting you you'll be dead in merely a few seconds. Snipers are similar. Combat/carnage dual weilders are similar. Not the best survivability, not the best duelists, but if they catch you in a group you're going to melt. Many people fail to understand that this is a team oriented game, whether it be ops or pvp. That is the function of this class, team support. The good ones know this and excel because of it. Others expect to be lone wolves them complain when they die. Learn to play as a team and you'll notice that you survive longer than if you were trying to 1v1 someone.
+1 on your post. MInus on 1v1 shadow/assassin tank-sins, I'm biased towards Anni/Watch builds.
Pax Imperius & Pax Dominus
Arash a.k.a. "Chuck Norris of PVP"

Doomsdaycomes's Avatar


Doomsdaycomes
11.01.2012 , 06:17 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliteAssasin View Post
That is the function of this class, team support. The good ones know this and excel because of it. Others expect to be lone wolves them complain when they die. Learn to play as a team and you'll notice that you survive longer than if you were trying to 1v1 someone.
No class should be "by design" the best 1 vs 1 class. Naturally, one class must fall into this category, but this should be marginal. We're talking about within a +/-5% general effectivness. The "leading" 1 vs 1 class wouldn't be the one's the Dev's said "Alright peeps, don't forget X class is suppose to be the best 1 vs 1'er!"

The exception of the +/-5% of course, would be a support class, as they should act as a force multiplier. A healer, though poor at 1 vs 1, starts to shine in 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3. Let's say alone a healer is worth .75. .75 vs 1, the one is going to win. Yet they add .25 to every team mate. So in 2 vs 2, it's now (.75+1.25) 2 vs 2. In 3 vs 3, it's (.75+1.25+1.25) 3.25 vs. 3... and so on.

A tank functions much the same. While they're not great 1 vs 1, in 2 vs 2 and up they multiply the effectiveness of every team mate around them.

Brining this back into the discussion, saying a dps Commando/Merc is suppose to function as Support is a joke. They are not a force multiplier, lacking abilities to buff/protect/heal the other units in their team. Any Dps can "support" another, but in the terms of a 2 vs 2, why have 1 weak and one strong dps, then you can have 2 strong?

In order for Commando's to be a justified "support dps" role, they need 1 of 2 things. Either:

1. Some kind of group buffing abilities (damage up, defense up, speed up, or even subtle things like +team accuracy, +team armor penetration, +team alacrity)

2. Increased damage. Keep their ****** survivability, but make them -hurt- till they're promptly dispatched. I mean -hurt alot.-

Personally, I'd rather we receive mostly defensive tools to bring us in-line with the other dps. I see this argument from mauraders when they justify their cool downs. A commando either needs deal enough damage between deaths to be effective, or it needs defenses to stay alive long enough to deal damage effectively.

Henu's Avatar


Henu
11.01.2012 , 07:00 PM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
Hi everyone! I talked to Austin Peckenpaugh (Senior Designer) about Commandos and Mercenaries and their situation in PvP right now, and he had this to say:

I think it's fair to say that Mercenaries and Commandos have escape issues. Admittedly, they can be very hard to catch when used correctly to hug corners, but a lot of that "escapability" falls aside when attacked by multiple melee enemies, at which point they just aren't quite tough enough to sustain without further escapes. We have plans for the future that should give Mercenaries and Commandos better escapes in PvP.
Its well and good to say these things and admit it but with out a action they are just words.
Kripty / Snips