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How to kill a Hybrid bubblestun Sage/Sorc?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
How to kill a Hybrid bubblestun Sage/Sorc?

DroidDreamer's Avatar


DroidDreamer
10.31.2012 , 11:13 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
Designed like ****.

I played the spec before the change and had plenty of utility and survivability. This change was unnecessary.
But I think most would agree that Lightning tree sorcs don't have enough damage burst or a defensive cool down. If you're going to take the bubble stun away from them, then they need some more DPS... which is what people were asking for. Not sure if the 30 second self heals is enough since you have to into the healing tree to increase it's heal out put. The self-heals is a great too for surviving for healer Sorcs, in my experience.
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nellosmomishot
10.31.2012 , 11:21 AM | #62
As someone who has played the hybrid heal spec since before the 1.2 nerfs (and also played it in the highest ranked republic team on my server), I think they should just roll it back to be an AoE mezz. This will have literally no impact on the highest tier of PvP as competitive ranked teams know how to not break CC. As an added benefit, the total derps in this thread can go back to facerolling bad sages in unranked where they belong.

What would break the spec, leaving it as a stun and doubling the resolve. Why? It's because then you couldn't bubble more than one or two players or the enemy teams resolve would fill too quickly.

What would also break the spec, moving the talent higher in the TK tree. This would put it out of reach of healing trance. While I have tried going higher for a mental alacrity build and no healing trance, the force management is no good.

This spec is literally the only sage spec that is viable in RWZ, don't take it away from us because you can't be bothered to blade storm (or whatever ranged move your class has) from range (I have a focus guardian I know it works).



TL,DR: Just make it an AoE mezz again to appease the hordes of bads, it won't affect competitive PvP enough to be an issue.
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Sulfuren's Avatar


Sulfuren
10.31.2012 , 11:27 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by nellosmomishot View Post
As someone who has played the hybrid heal spec since before the 1.2 nerfs (and also played it in the highest ranked republic team on my server), I think they should just roll it back to be an AoE mezz. This will have literally no impact on the highest tier of PvP as competitive ranked teams know how to not break CC. As an added benefit, the total derps in this thread can go back to facerolling bad sages in unranked where they belong.

What would break the spec, leaving it as a stun and doubling the resolve. Why? It's because then you couldn't bubble more than one or two players or the enemy teams resolve would fill too quickly.

What would also break the spec, moving the talent higher in the TK tree. This would put it out of reach of healing trance. While I have tried going higher for a mental alacrity build and no healing trance, the force management is no good.

This spec is literally the only sage spec that is viable in RWZ, don't take it away from us because you can't be bothered to blade storm (or whatever ranged move your class has) from range (I have a focus guardian I know it works).



TL,DR: Just make it an AoE mezz again to appease the hordes of bads, it won't affect competitive PvP enough to be an issue.
The suggestion is nice, but I'm just going to copy paste what I said before on this "spec."

Quote:
What did bioware say again with hybrids, oh, that's right.:

THEY AREN'T INTENDED.

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nellosmomishot
10.31.2012 , 11:33 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Sulfuren View Post
The suggestion is nice, but I'm just going to copy paste what I said before on this "spec."
What about the Vig/Defence hybrid? What about the shadow tank/dps hybrid? Sounds like your problem isn't with "hybrid" specs, it's with this one spec.

Also, what would you propose as an alternative? Right now this is the only reason to have a sage healer over an operative, and there is no reason to have a DPS sage currently.

So again, I would ask you to stop begging for the one good spec that sages have be taken away. I didn't see any complaints about this spec till the bubble became a stun, so why would rolling it back into a mezz be a problem?

This spec has exploded on my server as well, and on my guardian it poses no issue. This really is somewhere L2P is appropriate.
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nellosmomishot
10.31.2012 , 11:42 AM | #65
Also, what's really funny; when did bioware say that the hybrid specs weren't intended? Oh right, when they nerfed the telekinetic wave proc that sages got from telekinetic throw. Which they nerfed, and now sages don't have a viable DPS spec anymore either. It's not even like that hybrid was OP (they said that an instant cast AoE was a bit much to be able to proc like that... but smash is ok).

If BW could give sages a decent full tree for PvP we wouldn't have to play hybrid; alas, they don't,. and we do.

Get used to it, you're bad if you can't counter a bubble stun.
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Sulfuren
10.31.2012 , 11:51 AM | #66
Quote:
What about the Vig/Defence hybrid? What about the shadow tank/dps hybrid? Sounds like your problem isn't with "hybrid" specs, it's with this one spec.
Its not. If you actually read all of my other reply's, you wouldn't have just assumed this.

Quote:
Also, what would you propose as an alternative? Right now this is the only reason to have a sage healer over an operative, and there is no reason to have a DPS sage currently.
There's enough ranked teams or guilds overall on my server that has full healing / madness spec sorcs.

The difference between them and everyone else defending this, is that they -learned to play-, you know, -teamwork-.

Quote:
So again, I would ask you to stop begging for the one good spec that sages have be taken away. I didn't see any complaints about this spec till the bubble became a stun, so why would rolling it back into a mezz be a problem?
Cross healers using the same thing plus a root immune force speed. Again. Read my other posts.

I never said rolling it back was a problem, at all. The bigger problem is still there, though.

Quote:
This spec has exploded on my server as well, and on my guardian it poses no issue. This really is somewhere L2P is appropriate.
Or you would realise that not everyone gets a stun immune buff after charging, giving you enough time to burst the bubble.. Of course after its over they'll just knock you back/stun, run away, and the bubble is back up.

Quote:
they said that an instant cast AoE was a bit much to be able to proc like that... but smash is ok
Smash currently has a CD and requires pressing more than -one- button to set it up, it also requires movement and positioning.

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nellosmomishot
10.31.2012 , 11:51 AM | #67
Here is a list of moves that can be used to counter the bubble stun.

Jedi Knight:
Saber throw -> Blade storm (or vice versa) = popped bubble
Dispatch works well too if they are under 30%

Jedi Consular:
Telekinetic throw -> Project (or vice versa) = popped bubble (possibly without even the project)
hell, if you're dot spec just laugh as the bubble pops before you do anything

Imperial Agent:
Explosive Probe -> Rifle shot = popped bubble

Trooper:
I'm a little hazy here since I've never played one, but I'm sure that with both AC's having ranged attacks that it would be no problem.



And there you have it, even if you didn't select an advanced class you should be able to get through the bubble stun unharmed.

Potential counterargument: It's different in a WZ, there's way more people.
Response: That's true. However, if you can't figure out how to position yourself in a WZ to make this a nonissue, then you aren't as good at PvP as you think you are, and this really is a L2P issue (learn to position).
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Jadescythe
10.31.2012 , 11:57 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by nellosmomishot View Post
Potential counterargument: It's different in a WZ, there's way more people.
Response: That's true. However, if you can't figure out how to position yourself in a WZ to make this a nonissue, then you aren't as good at PvP as you think you are, and this really is a L2P issue (learn to position).
So what you are saying is that proper position for melee classes is completely out of melee range of everyone on the other team since they all have bubbles that could pop and stun them at any time? Your suggestions are fantastic for fighting an actual sage/sorc but fail when another fight happening nearby pops a bubble or when a bubble gets put on someone mid fight. That is why this is fine for the actual caster to have and great for survival and escapability, but terrible for the rest of the team to have.
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nellosmomishot
10.31.2012 , 12:01 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by Sulfuren View Post
Its not. If you actually read all of my other reply's, you wouldn't have just assumed this.
Fair enough, I only popped in after the first 6 pages.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sulfuren View Post
There's enough ranked teams or guilds overall on my server that has full healing / madness spec sorcs.

The difference between them and everyone else defending this, is that they -learned to play-, you know, -teamwork-.
There's plenty that run with them on my server as well, the difference between them and a team with the hybrid healer is that the hybrid healer survives. I don't think you're playing at that high of a level if you think that these teams wouldn't be more effective with an operative healer (against full seer), or a sniper (against madness). With a hybrid heal spec you are actually more viable than the operative (unless your team already has 1 hybrid healer, in which case the operative is more viable.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sulfuren View Post
Cross healers using the same thing plus a root immune force speed. Again. Read my other posts.

I never said rolling it back was a problem, at all. The bigger problem is still there, though.
I don't understand what the bigger problem is... it sounds like you're upset that a sage actually has some survivability instead of being a free kill.


Quote: Originally Posted by Sulfuren View Post
Or you would realise that not everyone gets a stun immune buff after charging, giving you enough time to burst the bubble.. Of course after its over they'll just knock you back/stun, run away, and the bubble is back up.



Smash currently has a CD and requires pressing more than -one- button to set it up, it also requires movement and positioning.
I play focus on my guardian. I don't have the cc immunity when I try and bring them down. To try and say that smash is a harder spec to play than hybrid healer is the funniest thing I've read all day. I play both in RWZ and I can put up 400k damage in a WZ while eating and playing with one hand on my smash spec (true story). I have to work my *** off to try and come close to the same heal numbers as an operative in my hybrid heal spec.
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nellosmomishot
10.31.2012 , 12:06 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
So what you are saying is that proper position for melee classes is completely out of melee range of everyone on the other team since they all have bubbles that could pop and stun them at any time? Your suggestions are fantastic for fighting an actual sage/sorc but fail when another fight happening nearby pops a bubble or when a bubble gets put on someone mid fight. That is why this is fine for the actual caster to have and great for survival and escapability, but terrible for the rest of the team to have.
You make it sound like their whole team is stacked up on top of one another... and that no one moves from this position. If this were the case, awesome I'll jump in and smash all the bubbles off in one go. Otherwise, I'll wait a few seconds (I know it's difficult to not mash your rotation 100% of the time, but actually think about what's going on) till my target has moved "enough" away from the group that I can be on the opposite side of my target and be completely away from the group, and in melee range of my target.

The people clicking off their bubbles are doing it wrong. This is the same as complaining about the guy that runs in and starts the fight with his hard stun. The only time it's appropriate to click off the bubble manually is if it's to cc for a cap. Otherwise, the extra ~3500 health is better.
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