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Should Tanks be made to be Uncrittable in PvE?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Tanking
Should Tanks be made to be Uncrittable in PvE?

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.29.2012 , 09:33 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Crit chance takes absolute priority on the 2nd roll of the 2 roll system (Crit>Shield>Hit). *Any* crit chance would show up in logs, which is why we know that it doesn't show up.
I have yet to see an actual expression for the two-roll system. Obviously, that sort of thing is important for both accuracy/defense and crit/shield. Do you have the math for that on-hand?
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

RLWalker's Avatar


RLWalker
10.29.2012 , 10:01 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I have yet to see an actual expression for the two-roll system. Obviously, that sort of thing is important for both accuracy/defense and crit/shield. Do you have the math for that on-hand?
It is explained in words here: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-364.html

Any formula that calculates mitigation will follow the two-roll system, although typically ignoring the crit chance exception. I have never seen a crit in any PvE boss encounter - I *have* seen crits on trash however. In PvP, it's rare for anyone to be wearing a shield, and attacks that can be shielded are relatively rare, and shield rating won't be stacked high even if they are wearing a shield, so it only comes into play when someone has an elevated crit chance. E.g. recklessness, laze target, towering rage. I believe the crits on trash are because of these special abilities.

_gideon's Avatar


_gideon
10.29.2012 , 12:37 PM | #13
I checked to see how the crit > shield > hit priority order had been determined for the second combat roll. Apparently it was a Georg Zoller post in the beta forums.

Long gone but you can find the quote here and here. I found it via Taugrim's blog.

Quote: Originally Posted by Georg Zoller
Combat Results:

We use a two-roll system for determining combat results.

First is a hit roll, accuracy versus defense, and if the attacker misses then no damage occurs. If the attacker rolled poorly enough to miss even discounting the target's defense then a "Miss" result occurs. If he misses because of the defense then the result varies based on the attack type, the cover state of the target, and the target's equipped weapons. All the possible results - Dodge, Parry, Deflect, Resist, Cover - are mathematically the same, but they can trigger different effects and are visualized in different ways.

If the attacker hits, then a second roll is made with the crit chance of the attacker versus the shield chance of the target. If a Crit or a Shield occurs then the damage is adjusted up or down (based on Surge/Absorb), and then it goes through to the armor and damage resistance. A critical can never be shielded, and an attacker with a high enough crit chance can push the target's shield chance off the table. It shouldn't be possible to get your passive crit chance high enough to start pushing off the target's shield chance, but there are short-duration buffs that push these chances high enough to come into conflict.

On Diminishing Returns:

All of the percentage-based "ratings" on gear have diminishing returns. The design intent is that all tanks will want a mix of Shield, Absorb and Defense ratings, with the "perfect" ratios varied by spec and play style.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
10.30.2012 , 12:18 AM | #14
Oh I'm very familiar with the English explanations of the two-roll system in TOR, I simply have yet to see an actual, verified formal expression which takes it into account.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)