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Stop guarding the healer in Flash Points!


SPrime's Avatar


SPrime
10.29.2012 , 10:37 AM | #61
As a healer I do not care who you guard as long as the tank is a aware that the dps or the healer can pull aggro. The task of the tank is to switch guards as needed. I can generate threat more than a dps in some instances and the dps can generate more threat in others. All because you are dps does not entitle you to a guard. I don't complain in a FP unless the tank makes a comment when we wipe that I wasn't healing. When in actuallity I was healing myself because I pulled threat tried to drop it and the tank and DPs did not even try to peel off me. This is because of the mindset that guard only goes to dps

So like I said guard is situational and should not be set to 1 class. I can crit heal in one kolto bomb for over 15k instantly. If you think you can do that much damage to move threat away from me. Then by all means keep saying that dps should be the only one that gets the guard.

Tekell's Avatar


Tekell
10.29.2012 , 10:38 AM | #62
if you guard the healer then he can heal more if your health goes down. If the healer keeps getting targeted and the tank is holding a boss and 3 others then it might be hard for the tank to target the one going after the healer. If the healer uses too many heals to keep everyone alive then he will pull a lot of aggro and he will die. Guard helps.

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
10.29.2012 , 10:45 AM | #63
IF the tank cant hold threat off a healer he's a bad tank. Plain and Simple. Also guard should always go to the top dps dont matter if melee or ranged. only like 1-2 fights in the entire game is it different,but if you want to get into that go read the tanking section

Pcolapat's Avatar


Pcolapat
10.29.2012 , 10:48 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Exiled-Phoenix View Post
Mobs that arn't being attacked by a DPS or tank (aoe or single target) will usually get agroed by the healer.
Healer their agro generation is spread over all mobs in the fight.
thus guarding a healer in a FP with alot of trash is a good idea
This. And in my experience if the dps is solid, the trash dies so fast that the tank doesn't have time to pick up everything. It is dead before he can aggro it. As a tank, I intentionally try to work the healer in flashpoints because if I don't it is rather boring. I will pull as many mobs as I can trying to wipe the group and see how well the healer can keep up. One of the healers in our guild was so good that i ran through the 4 man heroic in the black hole and aggroed everything i could and he was still able to keep everyone alive. Now that is a healer. Stop whining and just do your job.
Anything that is done repetitively can be done by a computer. That is why right brained people will eventually rule the world.

JediNg's Avatar


JediNg
10.29.2012 , 11:01 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Ms_Sunlight View Post
I know exactly how guard works in PVE. Read the examples I gave again. They are all examples of where you may get more utility from switching guard around situationally. If you simply put guard on a melee DPS and forget about it for the entire flashpoint or op, you are not using it to its full potential.
Depending on the tank, there's almost never a need to guard the healer. So we'll have to agree to disagree.
Ritha
The Harbinger
Formerly from Ahazi, Dec Oct 2003 - Nov 2005

SWGEvictee's Avatar


SWGEvictee
10.29.2012 , 11:04 AM | #66
Quote: Originally Posted by SentinelDranoel View Post
How about I write a guide for you showing tanking is done. I don't tank with my powertech in pve and my sith assassin was never full tank spec, but the jedi guardian has enough AOE threat generating moves that I find it easier.
Yes please. As someone who is fairly new to tanking and has a 50 sith warrior tank and is working up both a jedi guardian and shadow tanks I would appreciate any and all insight on pve tanking. Specifically what does and doesn't work for guardian and how best to utilize it.

Aedey's Avatar


Aedey
10.29.2012 , 11:05 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_of_Mu View Post
This has started to become an annoying trend among pugs and really has to stop. Lets look at what guard does.

"While active, the guarded player takes 5% less damage and generates 25% less threat. In addition, so long as you remain within 15 meters of the guarded player, 50% of all incoming damage from enemy players is transfered back to you."

To break it down. In PvE: "While active, the guarded player takes 5% less damage and generates 25% less threat. In addition, so long as you remain within 15 meters."

In pvp: 50% of all incoming damage from enemy players is transfered back to the tank, so long as you remain within 15 meters

At no point does a healer generate enough threat to exceed a tank's threat ceiling on any single target. Nor do healers come remotely close to the threat generation of classes like the Sentinel which lacks any kind of threat reduction ability.

Common mistake, I guarded you so you couldn't pull agro. If an add spawns or is agroed. You as the tank are responsible for picking it up. Otherwise it will go after the healer, no amount of guarding will change that. In simple mechanics. New mob Tank = 0 % threat. Healer casts heal and generates 100 points of threat, 100% threat. Add guard, healer generates 75 points of threat. Tank has 0 points of threat. 75 points of threat is still 100% of all threat on mobs threat table.

The guard did nothing! And the Sentinel just pulled agro, you should get on that.

Stop using guard as an excuse for poor play and start paying attention. Pick up adds and spread your threat around. We're not in pvp so stop guarding me.

/end rant.

I'm likely going to make a post in the guide forum. Try and nip this in the butt before the stupid overwhelms me.
For a good tank, yes this is very applicable. For a new tank I still say heal guard. A new tank probably won't understand mechanics & ergo the healer will probably get the threat.
Aedè Nebari - Consular - The Harbinger, Formerly Gav Daragon
I miss my 55ms of lag..
SWG YT-TwoFiveA - Europe - Chimaera

JediNg's Avatar


JediNg
10.29.2012 , 11:11 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Aedey View Post
For a good tank, yes this is very applicable. For a new tank I still say heal guard. A new tank probably won't understand mechanics & ergo the healer will probably get the threat.
Agreed. Speaking from personal experience, that is pretty much how I progressed lol.
Ritha
The Harbinger
Formerly from Ahazi, Dec Oct 2003 - Nov 2005

Aedey's Avatar


Aedey
10.29.2012 , 11:13 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by JediNg View Post
Agreed. Speaking from personal experience, that is pretty much how I progressed lol.
Same. & Omg we played on the same swg server. <3

Anyway. Tanking isn't really a newb thing. BUT, if the dps is good enough they may know how to handle the threat & help the tank along. But it really does depend on the tank, the dps & the healz. You need to know your group to know the mechanics fully.
Aedè Nebari - Consular - The Harbinger, Formerly Gav Daragon
I miss my 55ms of lag..
SWG YT-TwoFiveA - Europe - Chimaera

Ms_Sunlight's Avatar


Ms_Sunlight
10.29.2012 , 11:25 AM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by JediNg View Post
Depending on the tank, there's almost never a need to guard the healer. So we'll have to agree to disagree.
I never said there was a "need". I said you get more utility from guard by using it situationally. You want to get less than the best use out of it, that's your business.

I can think of several specific boss fights where there is large amounts of AOE damage but threat management is never the issue (Mentor, Revan). I can also think of specific fights with scripted threat switching (Jindo Kray, Commander Lk'graath) or where specific attacks always target someone who does not have threat (LR-5 droid's Experimental Cannon) where the 5% damage reduction is the only benefit to Guard.

By the time you get to ops, that 5% can be the difference between winning and wiping.

You want to use guard as a set-and-forget ability? Feel free - i'm not even on your server anyway.
Carilie - Scoundrel // Dastelen - Shadow // Dras'yra - Sniper // Elonie - Sorcerer // Undali - Powertech
Server: The Red Eclipse // Guild: The Onyx Guard / The Orbital Guard