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Are PT Tanks (Shield Tech) Viable in LVL50 PVP??

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Are PT Tanks (Shield Tech) Viable in LVL50 PVP??

DEADLY_SiNNER's Avatar


DEADLY_SiNNER
10.18.2012 , 04:02 PM | #1
Currently my PT is lvl 43 and I am PVPing my way to lvl 50 so I can max out both my ranked and regular WZ coms to buy both my WH main hand and offhand as soon as I ding 50, right now my PT is 31/3/0 build and she just destroys everything in her path in lowbie PVP coming out of most battle without a scratch on her, but I know from past experience (have a WH Operative and WH Marader) that lvl 50 is a whole new ball game.... so with that being said...

I know the amount of people who play PT Tanks in lvl 50 PVP is pretty slim and while searching the forums I haven't noticed too much about how PT tanks perform in lvl 50 PVP, I know you guys are out there so I just want to know if you could fill me in on some of the specifics such as....

1) is a shield tech build viable for pvp (do you actually have enough power to kill someone if you are wearing full Super Commando PVP gear)
2) what role do you usually find yourself playing, guarding nodes, guarding healers, running interference while others cap nodes or all of the above
3) What type of augments do you guys use in your PVP armor, main stat? defense? absorb? endurance? power? or a combo of all of them, should I have more augments of one type over the other?
4) What build do you guys use, is this 31/8/2, seems like a solid build for 50 PVP? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdoroGRZMsbZb.2

Thanks

LordExozone's Avatar


LordExozone
10.18.2012 , 06:28 PM | #2
Shieldtech is not really viable in PvP. Yes you will be more suvivable if you use a set of defensive super commando warhero & spec shieldtech, but your damage will be so much lower that you will not be able to burst anyone down effectively. That isn't your aim obviously as a tank, but unfortunately in SWTOR's pvp bursting critical players down as fast as possible is king.

The things most hurting is that defensive stats (be it defense or shield/absorb) are only about 50% effective in PvP. Defense and Shield only works on melee & ranged attacks, but not on force & tech attacks (roughly half the classes use mainly force or mainly tech). Yet you pay the same amount of stat allocation points for them.

So if you get an item with +20 power and +20 crit, those stat points boost all your attacks in pvp, i.e. they work 100%. But take an item with +20 defense and +20 shield rating, and those stat points only boost your defense against roughly half the incoming attacks.
So what this means is, that when you face someone in full DPS gear while you wear full Defense gear, they will have a massive advantage over you if they have one or more main attacks that are force or tech based. And if they don't, it will be equal. That is hardly fair.

What I would advise, is if you really want to play a supportive role, still get an offensive war hero set, spec either AP for more damage or Shieldtech for more survivability, but do not believe Bioware's old promise where they said all specs are within 10% dps of one another...if you spec Shieldtech your damage will be 20-30% lower than AP or Pyrotech. Using Ion Gas Cylinder with AP works pretty well and allows you to guard other players while stilling dealing a respectable amount of damage.

You can use a shield generator, but know that even with Ion Gas Cylinder active it will provide a mere 2% damage reduction on average (20% chance to reduce damage by 20% on 50% of the incoming attacks = 2%). Without Ion Gas Cylinder it will provide a mere 0.5% damage reduction (lol). On the other hand a power generator will provide you with roughly 200 more techpower, which should be around a 5% boost regardless of what cylinder you use. Again defense vs offense is not in balance.
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Mandalore a'den mhi, Vode an. Bal kote, darasuum kote,
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Azrienov's Avatar


Azrienov
10.18.2012 , 07:17 PM | #3
Run my friend. Run AWAY from the shield spec in PvP. It's viability is compromised right now.

DEADLY_SiNNER's Avatar


DEADLY_SiNNER
10.19.2012 , 03:58 PM | #4
Thanks for all the help, I am really bummed out now though that PT Tanking in lvl 50 PVP with PVP TANKING ARMOR is not a viable spec to play because I am having a ton of fun with it in lowbie pvp! Bioware really needs to buff the tanking tree and/or the tanking armor! I want to be able to play a shield tech spec in super commando armor in 50 pvp!
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Evuo's Avatar


Evuo
10.19.2012 , 04:39 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by DEADLY_SiNNER View Post
Thanks for all the help, I am really bummed out now though that PT Tanking in lvl 50 PVP with PVP TANKING ARMOR is not a viable spec to play because I am having a ton of fun with it in lowbie pvp! Bioware really needs to buff the tanking tree and/or the tanking armor! I want to be able to play a shield tech spec in super commando armor in 50 pvp!
Well you can still give it a go, you just won't find yourself very useful without a strong supporting cast. Without an on-demand slow, longer on-proc slow, an AOE slow, or partial cc immunity you won't be as annoying to opponents either. Until the design philosophy behind the vg/pt changes you won't have any "oh ****" cooldowns to save you in a tough spot.

The_Stig's Avatar


The_Stig
10.27.2012 , 03:19 AM | #6
I played ST spec since December 2011. It is a viable PvP spec, but it takes a lot of practice to play right.

1v1, this spec is absolutely worthless. You have no burst DPS at all, and almost every class with exception of DPS Mercenary and Commando will murder you. Healers will just LOL-heal your damage. If you want to see the big numbers over enemy heads, this is not the class for you. Damage of ST spec is abysmal.

In group PvP is where ST shines. I always take control of the turrets/objectives and guard them. It takes a long time for anyone to kill me with 24k health and 1250 expertise; and while they are killing me, I can call in back up and save the point. In mass combat situation, I guard the healer, fire my taunt darts at enemy DPS characters, and disrupt the enemy healers with quell, stun dart, and carbonize. When paired with good healer I can tank four people consistently.

As far as abilities go, this class is very fun to play. I really enjoy it. You have pull, jet charge, carbonize, flame sweep, DFA, guard, taunt darts, rocket punch, unload, and flame thrower. In Huttball I can play Tim Teebow on steroids when there is a good healer and off-tank present. I can walk the ball into the end-zone while being pummeled by all eight enemy players.

For the build, I have 32/7/2. All of my augments are Reflex Augments +12 Endurance, +18 Aim.

That being said, give the class a try. Find yourself a healer, team up with him and play for objectives. I find playing ST very fun and rewarding. I haven't switched my spec once, even though my guild mates asked me to go DPS countless times.
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TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
10.28.2012 , 01:53 AM | #7
Quote:
1) is a shield tech build viable for pvp (do you actually have enough power to kill someone if you are wearing full Super Commando PVP gear)
Pay no attention to the naysayers, it's perfectly viable for 50 PvP. Yes, you have enough power to cause damage. 300k damage, 200k protection is not uncommon for me. Wearing a full set of Supercommando armor is pointless though, see #3 for the gear I use. PT tank damage is better than Jugg tanks, but still less than Assassin tanks.

Quote:
2) what role do you usually find yourself playing, guarding nodes, guarding healers, running interference while others cap nodes or all of the above
You want to be in the thick of things, where all the action is. You have a lot of AoE at your disposal, including an AoE taunt. Run w/ a guild healer and toss guard around to protect your teammates. Be support DPS and help focus down enemies.

Quote:
3) What type of augments do you guys use in your PVP armor, main stat? defense? absorb? endurance? power? or a combo of all of them, should I have more augments of one type over the other?
I use all Aim augments. I have tank implants, main hand, and offhand. The rest is DPS gear.

Quote:
4) What build do you guys use, is this 31/8/2, seems like a solid build for 50 PVP? http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301G0GrdoroGRZMsbZb.2
31/10/0. Take those 2 points out of Iron Fist in the Pyro tree and put them into Advanced Tools. The shorter cooldown on Grapple is well worth it.

LordExozone's Avatar


LordExozone
10.28.2012 , 05:58 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by TheronFett View Post
Pay no attention to the naysayers, it's perfectly viable for 50 PvP. Yes, you have enough power to cause damage. 300k damage, 200k protection is not uncommon for me. Wearing a full set of Supercommando armor is pointless though, see #3 for the gear I use. PT tank damage is better than Jugg tanks, but still less than Assassin tanks.
No offense, but as AP I regularly switch to use ion cell when I see that would benefit the team. I have the exact same tools at protecting my allies as ST minus the accuracy debuff, and do roughly 10-20% more dps and significantly more burst and AOE even in ion cell compared to ST (at the cost of having more difficult to manage heat), meaning I can kill classes attacking my healer faster.

What advantages would you say ST brings over AP in that regard? For the way I see it it merely brings some additional personal survivability to the table, which is in most situations overshadowed by being able to do more damage.
Kote! Kandosii sa kar'ta, Vode an.
Mandalore a'den mhi, Vode an. Bal kote, darasuum kote,
Jorso'ran kando a tome. Sa kyr'am nau tracyn kad, Vode an.

TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
10.28.2012 , 09:48 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by LordExozone View Post
...I have the exact same tools at protecting my allies as ST minus the accuracy debuff...
No, you don't. You're also lacking:

5% damage debuff (for 15 sec)
Ion Cylinder damage proc and movement debuff
16% armor
Damage mitigation via shields...doesn't affect much in PvP, but it does help
Most likely reduced HP compared to a full spec tank
Jet Charge

Any derp can toss around taunts, so that's a wash. The only benefit you're gaining by switching cylinders is being able to use Guard. You'd benefit your team more by not doing it at all and just sticking with DPS. Stance/cylinder dancing isn't very productive for any class.

Don't underestimate survivability. After a zerg by the opposing team, and the dust has settled, I'm always the last one standing. I can withstand focus fire from 3-4 attackers long enough for reinforcements to arrive. I often get "unbeatable" and even "immortal". With even a semi-competent healer at my back, you and your team might as well forget it. You're not going to kill me, ever.

Evuo's Avatar


Evuo
10.28.2012 , 05:21 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by TheronFett View Post
No, you don't. You're also lacking:

5% damage debuff (for 15 sec)
Ion Cylinder damage proc and movement debuff
16% armor
Damage mitigation via shields...doesn't affect much in PvP, but it does help
Most likely reduced HP compared to a full spec tank
Jet Charge
I see you are trying to make a list of advantages as shield tech over this AP spec switcheroo, but I'm a bit confused in your direction and am worried maybe you are assuming a bit too much. He might have the 5% dmg debuff in his build. It could be possible he has the armor increase as well (not that I would advocate that). Additionally, you didn't recommend the OP make any changes to his build outside of Iron Fist > Advanced Tools. That would leave him without Neural Overload, which you just advocated as an advantage over the AP cylinder switcher.

The answer you wanted to give to the OP for #1 was No, but if you do X,Y, and Z you can ...