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Tanks and somethings they may not tell you

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Tanks and somethings they may not tell you

Taiketo's Avatar


Taiketo
10.24.2012 , 06:51 AM | #211
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Also remember, if you guard the healer (who gets a 25% threat reduction) and there are mobs that NOBODY is attacking, the healer will still be at the top of the aggro table and will get attacked anyway.
Another reason to NEVER guard the healer, as the healer will almost never pull off anything with any threat on it.

And the adds that spawn during Kephess start with a certain amount of threat and beeline towards the tanks.

The fight against Kephess himself is one where guarding the DPS is pretty much the most important thing to do, since a DPS pull off means every melee dps just ate a cleave, which means they're now dead.

In fact, that's why DPS should be guarded to begin with. Everyone saying "well if the healer dies it's a wipe" doesn't really seem to understand how this game works.

Healers generate half the threat of everyone else. A healer will never, ever, ever, ever, ever pull off a target that's actively being attacked (in a realistic situation, not talking level 50 healer with level 10 people or anything). The reduced threat from guard is USELESS. The 5% damage reduction SOMETIMES comes into play, but more often than not a DPS pull off ends up in more overall raid damage (since it generally means the DPS just ate a cleave) and often causes a wipe. The 5% damage reduction on a healer will almost never be the difference between life and death.

DPS generate a lot of threat. Tank's generate twice the threat, but usually put out less than half the DPS. A high burst class, like a carnage marauder, will frequently pull off a tank that doesn't pay attention and use taunts intelligently. Guard helps this.

Nearly every boss in this game cleaves. A cleave is extra damage to the DPS or possibly a wipe. The DPS are just as important to the fight as the healer or the tank. You can not do it without them.

I've played all 3 roles somewhat extensively. If I get guarded as a healer I cancel it and tell them to put it on someone else. It's doing nothing for me, the 5% damage reduction is utterly useless since most heals on myself are overheals anyway, and the threat generation reduction is ignorable for healers.

Alash's Avatar


Alash
10.25.2012 , 08:51 AM | #212
The only fight in pve that you should guard the healer is the last phase in terror from beyond.

RDeanOU's Avatar


RDeanOU
10.26.2012 , 03:52 PM | #213
Quote: Originally Posted by Nickisatowel View Post
I thank the OP who puts his guard on healers, it's a great idea. I always guard the healer and I always get guarded as the healer. Considering the healers job is to heal, if the DPS pulls agro for a few moments, depending on the situation, it's barely a problem, he'll be up to full in a few seconds and the tank will regain agro. As a healer, I always heal others first before myself, I usually only heal myself when I'm around 40%, otherwise I slowly heal up by doing my AOEs. The guard really does help me out, on BT HM, with all the large groups, I manage to get a lot of trash on me, but when I have the skilled tanks who know when and who to put there guard on, they usually keep it on me for the trash, so I don't have to panic. They do switch guard onto the DPS for boss fights and maybe a few golds here and there, that helps me out more than if it were on me, in that situation, because as a merc healer, I have a MUCH easier time with focused healing.
The guard doesn't help you out in the large trash pulls on BT HM. As a healer your threat is trivial. The only way you will gain aggro on these large groups is if no one is hitting the mobs. In that case you will gain aggro no matter who has guard on them. Reducing your trivial threat further is a waste of the ability. The 5% DR isn't going to be very meaningful on trash pulls either. A skilled tank will not guard the healer.

Otembe's Avatar


Otembe
10.26.2012 , 05:38 PM | #214
DPS always have 100% control over the amount of threat they generate. Always. They can always stop pushing buttons for a second. Two seconds, even, in the case of heroic and exceptionally disciplined individual DPSers. They have much more control over their own threat than healers do.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
10.26.2012 , 06:08 PM | #215
Quote: Originally Posted by Otembe View Post
DPS always have 100% control over the amount of threat they generate. Always. They can always stop pushing buttons for a second. Two seconds, even, in the case of heroic and exceptionally disciplined individual DPSers. They have much more control over their own threat than healers do.
Why not guard that dps that's pulling aggo instead?

The healer isn't going to RIP aggro off the tank, the healer is going grab aggro on any mobs that haven't been attacked or taunted.

a) Don't use taunts in the beginning of the fight, use them when they're needed.
b) DPS burn down the weak mobs first, then there's nothing left to aggro on the healer as the elites are busy with the tank.
c) Profit.

RDeanOU's Avatar


RDeanOU
10.26.2012 , 08:51 PM | #216
Quote: Originally Posted by Otembe View Post
DPS always have 100% control over the amount of threat they generate. Always. They can always stop pushing buttons for a second. Two seconds, even, in the case of heroic and exceptionally disciplined individual DPSers. They have much more control over their own threat than healers do.
Healers generate threat at HALF the rate of DPSers!

Their threat generation is trivial. They will only ever have aggro on mobs no one is hitting. I'd rather use the buff to ensure my best dpser doesn't have to stop hitting buttons for a second or two than waste it by putting it on the person in the group that generates the least threat.

Your point is totally, completely, and unequivocally absurd. Control of threat isn't an issue. We are talking about putting a threat decrease on a role that generates threat at a significant rate vs putting it on a role that generates threat at an insignificant rate. If you think healing aggro is ever an issue in this game I have to question whether you have even a basic understanding of how threat generation works.

Mcadamsl's Avatar


Mcadamsl
10.27.2012 , 06:28 AM | #217
as a Healer, I rather you place it on the dps, preferred the melee dps and I'll not pull aggro of the tank unless it is a mob no one has ago on and when that is the case guard did nothing to help,

IronFirewind's Avatar


IronFirewind
10.27.2012 , 06:35 AM | #218
Quote: Originally Posted by Fallerup View Post
in PvP, you always guard the healer, for obvious reasons.
Not true. In PvP you guard the targets that will be taking focus fire and you switch guard depending on who is being targetted.

If I'm a Guardian and the Sentinel next to me is taking damage while the Sage behind me is safely out of attack range I will switch guard to that Sentinel.

If the healer than tells me over voice that he's has someone on him then I'll leap back and throw a guard up.
Lilisetté - Assassin | The Progenitor EU (RP)

Furballer's Avatar


Furballer
10.27.2012 , 12:07 PM | #219
Its a shame how they watch for the dps classes and not the others, if you gte enough enemies and cant do the cc on all you usualy have to play crazy as a tank, you do not inflict enough dmg to keep them on you.

So you turn and turn and taunt whenever its up, rest already on cd.....and kids cry they want to dps more and more. Seems devs where once one of those kids. Yesterday i was playing a warzone, somebody said: " 4k, 6k, 5k, 6k, those where my last deaths, wth".

TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
10.28.2012 , 01:37 AM | #220
If you're guarding the healer in PvE, you're doing it wrong. Period. The threat table has been well established, but in case someone has missed it:

100% - Tank
75% - DPS
50% - Healing

In addition, all healing trees have threat reducing talents to make their threat generation even less. The ONLY way a healer should pull aggro is on a MOB they have previously CC'd and no one else has attacked it yet.

As a tank, your job is to hold threat so that DPS can do their job, which is cause damage. Since damage causes threat, and they put out more damage than the tank, the logical choice is to guard the highest DPS for the threat reduction. Most DPS classes have a threat reduction ability that they should be using on cooldown, but many don't.