The sky isn't falling. A numbers based view.

I disagree Andryah. We know there were 700k+ more games sold to players who didn't like the game enough to even sub. That directly impacts the retention rate that Tim is trying to prove. Ignoring those additional 700k+ makes any conclusion meaningless.

Please reread Andryah's post.

The comparisons have to be the same, or they are not comparisons. I explicitly laid out the terms of what we are comparing data. SWTOR's sales to subs ratio is meaningless without comparison.

I suggest you spend some time to understand how he synthesizes his data (for which he uses a number of different sources to cross check and rationalize the data), rather then just jump to is statement of caveat to discedit data you don't understand or don't like.

My point being that he uses a very consistent methodology to help insure he is not doing what so many people on gaming forums do (pulling numbers out of dark places in their anatomy).

Are his numbers absolute official subscription numbers? .. in most cases no. Does he have a sound methodology for arriving at estimations that test well? YES.

Im not saying the disappointing figures had nothing to do with it, Im just putting it into perspective.

Not all people who lost their jobs did so because of disappointing figures. Some lost their jobs because of it? Sure.
In regards to the customer support staff that was cut, this is to be expected. Having worked in customer support for a lot of my worklife, it is known for companies to hire a lot of people for a new project under the banner of "This project will be immense forever and ever" when it is in fact just to catch the sudden inflow that is needed for a short period. This is always why most of those jobs will not be via a permanent contract but on a trial basis for 3 months. EA counted on the fact to cut jobs from customer support, maybe not as much as they had to but they still counted on it.

I am Andryah. I think that by tossing out the additional 700k, like he's done, you're generating a very sketchy conclusion. Those additional 700k box sales came with a 30 day subscription. Ignoring them to prove retention rate is wrong.

If you insist on going this route... then you have to do it for every game compared in the discussion, or you are being hypocritical. In which case, you need to create new research because MMOdata does not cover box sales, and never has. So the burden is on you to be fair and objective here if you want to go by box sales.

Right now... you are pressing the box sales only for SWTOR, which discredits you comments here as far as I am concerned.

But you immediately discarded 700k subscribers to pretend you found a retention %.

There is no subscription with the box sale. It's 30 days of free play time. And, respectfully, you are not listening and you are trying to skew the discussion by using one set of data for SWTOR and different data for every other game.

They were not subscribers. And EA has said so.

Whatever lol. Go ahead and use your fake numbers to prove some fake point. We have the numbers for SWTOR and those 2.4 million were ALL subscribers this year. Ignoring 700k just because they dropped early, doesn't negate them as a factor in retention.