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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Palar's Avatar


Palar
10.25.2012 , 02:31 PM | #2551
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Chapter 4 may have nothing to do with makeb whatsoever.
Yet another semantic they refuse to clarify for us. "It's coming with new story." Great... since Makeb is only a planet story arc (or so we're told) and not class stories, where does that leave us? Still in the same colourfully-named creek we've been up for some time, with no plans for implementing a paddle?

Hello? Is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me. Is there anyone at home?

Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
And Makeb may have nothing to do with SGRs.

Chapter 4 may have nothing to do with SGRs.

We don't know because they won't *********** tell us.

The censored bit is a word that starts with F and rhymes with "trucking" FWIW.
See this? Uluain's had the patience and dedication of a saint... and has had enough. That's a sign.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
10.25.2012 , 02:37 PM | #2552
I try. Yesterday, between one thing and another, I just reached the tipping point on this.


edit - and no, I am not off my meds.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
10.25.2012 , 02:38 PM | #2553
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
What has really ticked me off recently is that we are so cordially invited by Community Support to continue to ask our questions here.

In the thread where, over the past ten months, more than seventy-five hundred posts, more than half a million views, we still have received no information, ever.

But do please feel free to ask!
Feel free to ask, but don't expect to be acknowledged. Your petty human ways are of no concern to us.

Incidentally, in our planned communication to Games Industry.biz and/or Kotaku, what are we going to say? (Don't worry about Bioware deleting our posts, they don't read the thread.)

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
10.25.2012 , 03:20 PM | #2554
In honesty, that's what has stopped me from taking this out of the studio. Those unfamiliar with the game will see "inclusive content slated for implementation! whoop-de-doo!" and not understand where our concerns lie. They are likely to misconstrue it as wanting the content sooner (not the case, although it really out to have come alongside OGR, however long that would have delayed all romantic options, but I digress).

The problem is more subtle than that, in a way I could hope those concerned with monitoring this thread understand by now, but which I would be at a loss to explain briefly to anyone not already familiar with the game and its community.

Eleuril's Avatar


Eleuril
10.25.2012 , 03:31 PM | #2555
It's inevitable that someone is going to be disappointed with SGR when it does come out. That's yet another problem arising from this silence. In the absence of any concrete information, players have been speculating and getting their hopes too high. It's invariably not going to be with the companions some people wanted or something similar. That is not, in itself, a problem. You can't please everyone, as the saying goes. What is a problem is that people have been allowed to nurture their expectations for quite a long time.

There are so many posts in this thread from people who want to romance a particular companion and who have been waiting patiently to be able to do so, maybe even holding off creating or playing certain characters. To allow those people to get their hopes up seems rather unkind if you know some of those companions won't be available.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
10.25.2012 , 03:32 PM | #2556
I think that's the problem, as most of our grievances come from the wonderful nuances of Bioware's so-called communication. They've played the diplomatic card extremely well in that regard: saying that they have no information, but they do appreciate our patience. From an outsider's perspective they have done everything "right" - likely that outsiders would also see the segregation of LGB players from straight players to be "right". Wait, did I say segregation? I meant to say "treating LGB players differently to straight players".

In fact, EA and Bioware are SO thoughtful and SO supportive of the LGB community that they haven't even deigned to entertain the notion of engaging with said community, even though they are more than happy to proclaim their position of acceptance and support to the media and public.

Same-sex romances may not be a problem to the share-holders as Ms. Maseda said, but apparently the straight, white male is still far too sensitive to even think that someone, somewhere, might not be a straight white male as well.


Quote: Originally Posted by Eleuril View Post
To allow those people to get their hopes up seems rather unkind if you know some of those companions won't be available.
By now? Schadenfreude.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
10.25.2012 , 05:16 PM | #2557
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
I meant to say "treating LGB players differently to straight players".
Well, they aren't discriminating against players on the basis of orientation (other than the delay over inclusion, but there is nothing to be done about that now short of, oh, I don't know, an apology maybe?) but this topic is being handled in a different manner on account of its controversial subject matter quarantined, as it were, for its own protection from hostile attention.

That this makes this topic less visible to the community at large (which it does) puts it at a disadvantage among other topics under discussion permitted free run of General Discussion even when they could better fit in a subforum. We are told it is a forum-wide policy to close and redirect any redundant threads. But even a cursory comparison of popular topics (Hood Toggle, Chat Bubbles, Paid Transfer, Free to Play) will quickly demonstrate that this policy is selectively enforced.

I use the term discrimination advisedly and cautiously I majored in English, I appreciate precision of definition but when one group (say, those wishing to discuss same-gender romantic content) are treated differently on that account (as is demonstrably the case) in a way that is disadvantageous to their interests in a manner that others are not likewise restricted, then that does fit the definition of the term.

Now, no law prohibits BioWare from running this forum however they like. Their roof, their rules. And I am more than free to set up my own forums to discuss this, and moderate that discussion, in any way I like within the policy of my service provider. So legally, it's all kosher.

Morally, or ethically... well, it isn't my job to tell others what is right. But it is my job to encourage them to think about right and wrong, and to listen to their conscience, and to do what they find to be right. So I present this for what it is worth as something to think about.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
10.25.2012 , 05:35 PM | #2558
Quote: Originally Posted by Uluain View Post
Well, they aren't discriminating against players on the basis of orientation (other than the delay over inclusion, but there is nothing to be done about that now short of, oh, I don't know, an apology maybe?) but this topic is being handled in a different manner on account of its controversial subject matter quarantined, as it were, for its own protection from hostile attention.
Well, given that EA and Bioware have included LGB-positive content in previous games (that is: one can have same-sex romances in those games) but have decided not to include it in Star Wars: The Old Republic, says to me that they are deliberately treating this subject matter, the content and, arguably, the community who wants said content, differently for no truly expressed reason other than they think it is not as important as opposite-sex romances. I content that if same-sex and opposite-sex romances were considered of equal importance, they would have been recorded and programmed at the same time and would have been released at the same time. For some reason in Star Wars: The Old Republic, EA and Bioware have decided to turn their back on a standard that they themselves set, largely without outside influence.

I don't believe they are every going to apologise. At this point in time, I would say that the management at Bioware are probably feeling pretty damn pleased with themselves, thinking they have handled the situation admirably.

Uluain's Avatar


Uluain
10.25.2012 , 06:03 PM | #2559
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
I don't believe they are every going to apologise. At this point in time, I would say that the management at Bioware are probably feeling pretty damn pleased with themselves, thinking they have handled the situation admirably.
I don't know. I'd like to credit them with some awareness of the awkwardness of the situation they have created. And without necessarily expecting an apology, one may point out that a social convention does exist by which one may acknowlege unfortunate consequences of actions that cannot be undone, and express one's regret.

Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
10.25.2012 , 06:07 PM | #2560
Tatooine.... female Smuggler and Vaverone Zare..... it's a beautiful thing, man.

I just pray it isn't a glitch, and that they don't do ANYTHING to "fix" it! But it's there! Not what all of us want, but it's a start.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.