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PuG Behavior in Flashpoints and Kicking


JamieKirby's Avatar


JamieKirby
10.24.2012 , 03:00 PM | #81
The way i see it, if there is no pre-rule go over before and after you join the group, then you didn't break any rule at all, its their fault for not telling you any of those rules.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
10.24.2012 , 04:08 PM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by Totaltrash View Post
...

My system is equal AND fair, your's belongs in kindergarten.
I wanted to say something else, because this comment in particular bugs me.

The "Need only on Main Spec Upgrades" is all about the big picture. I'm willing to "give away" this loot that I don't really need, because I expect that somewhere down the line someone else will "give away" loot that they don't need to me. This seems like an agreement between sensible people who have manners.

It only breaks down when you have people 'mineminemine' who need on loot their toon can't use, while there is someone else in the group that could get a direct gear upgrade -- call me crazy but that sounds more like kindergarten ...

GalaxyStrong's Avatar


GalaxyStrong
10.24.2012 , 06:09 PM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by Totaltrash View Post
Yes, yes - nice long rant in support of social contract. And thanks for the insults too.

Your "social contract" system:
Player X runs 10 ops and gets nothing because nothing dropped that he was "allowed" to roll on.
Player Y runs 5 ops and is fully geared because everything dropped and only he was "allowed" to need on it.

My "random generator" system:
Player X runs 10 ops and gets at least some items he can trade/sell or use for his companions
Player Y gets the same chances as Player X.

Your system awards the lucky.
My system awards those who are persistent and work hard.

My system is equal AND fair, your's belongs in kindergarten.
Your an idiot, enough said

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RESPECT THE EMPIRE!!!
Or YOUR A DEAD-MAN

Flaminica's Avatar


Flaminica
10.24.2012 , 09:52 PM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by GalaxyStrong View Post
Your an idiot, enough said
This opinion from someone who doesn't know how to spell "you're."
Spearshakers
||

Totaltrash's Avatar


Totaltrash
10.25.2012 , 04:00 AM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I wanted to say something else, because this comment in particular bugs me.

The "Need only on Main Spec Upgrades" is all about the big picture. I'm willing to "give away" this loot that I don't really need, because I expect that somewhere down the line someone else will "give away" loot that they don't need to me. This seems like an agreement between sensible people who have manners.

It only breaks down when you have people 'mineminemine' who need on loot their toon can't use, while there is someone else in the group that could get a direct gear upgrade -- call me crazy but that sounds more like kindergarten ...
In Kindergarten, we teach our children to share, but later in life, the world teaches them not to.

Like I said many posts ago, an ideal loot system would award individual loot which takes the classes into account - but we don't have such a system here.

My point is and has always been this:
Almost all the complaints that I've been reading here have to do with "ninja looting" in groupfinder teams.
Groupfinder teams are random, hence the loot should be distributed randomly to make it fair and equal for everyone!
My system does just that, without the need of a vague, unenforcable "social contract".

Naturally, when pugging in a guild premade, the pug should abide by their loot sytem, whatever that may be.
Their ops, their rules - that simple.

ronniehenlau's Avatar


ronniehenlau
10.25.2012 , 05:17 AM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Totaltrash View Post
In Kindergarten, we teach our children to share, but later in life, the world teaches them not to.

Like I said many posts ago, an ideal loot system would award individual loot which takes the classes into account - but we don't have such a system here.

My point is and has always been this:
Almost all the complaints that I've been reading here have to do with "ninja looting" in groupfinder teams.
Groupfinder teams are random, hence the loot should be distributed randomly to make it fair and equal for everyone!
My system does just that, without the need of a vague, unenforcable "social contract".

Naturally, when pugging in a guild premade, the pug should abide by their loot sytem, whatever that may be.
Their ops, their rules - that simple.
I dont know about you, but I would teach my children that you shouldnt take stuff you can neither use or want, just because you can. What was stated by the other dude is not about sharing, its about taking something because you can.

We actually did have random divided loot back in the days, but people who didnt think only of themselves didnt like it, because it made people in full rakata get columi drops, while others, who may have needed the drop, didnt get anything because it was randomly given to other people.

As far as Im concerned, the way it works now is the best way it could work. If you need it, hit need. If you're gonna sell it or give it to your companion, greed. I know some people considering their companion an extension of themselves, which is by all means fine. However:
  1. The majority disagrees with the fact that companions are as important as player characters
  2. Companions are only useful for solo gameplay (dailies at 50), while a PC is useful for every aspect of the game
Yus - Operative Healer
Bllsdeep - Powertech Pyrotech[
And 15 more 55s)

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
10.25.2012 , 09:38 AM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by Totaltrash View Post
In Kindergarten, we teach our children to share, but later in life, the world teaches them not to.

...
Cynical eh?

Are you the type of person who'd rather cut someone off trying to merge on the freeway, rather than letting them in? Hey I've had people cut me off. Is that a "life lesson" I should take to heart and be sure to do it do everyone else?

DarthFamine's Avatar


DarthFamine
10.25.2012 , 09:49 AM | #88
yeah Op you were in the wrong man, greed is for companions need is only for you.

on the flip side at least you had the wisdom to check.

luck in the future.
"It might be fear, or anger, or hatred, or perhaps even suffering that makes a man fall to the dark side, but it is without a doubt regret, that keeps him there."
-Darth Famine
www.RJKgaming.com

Totaltrash's Avatar


Totaltrash
10.25.2012 , 10:55 AM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by ronniehenlau View Post
I dont know about you, but I would teach my children that you shouldnt take stuff you can neither use or want, just because you can. What was stated by the other dude is not about sharing, its about taking something because you can. <snip>
I teach mine to take what they are entitled to - no more, no less.

AFKing and other douchebaggery aside, each member of the team contributes to killing the boss.
Hence each member of the team is entitled to a roll for the loot.
It is irrelevant if they can use the loot or not, they are still entitled to the roll because they did the work.

Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Cynical eh?

Are you the type of person who'd rather cut someone off trying to merge on the freeway, rather than letting them in? Hey I've had people cut me off. Is that a "life lesson" I should take to heart and be sure to do it do everyone else?
By no means cynical, just realistic.
Greed is the foundation of capitalism - if it were any different, we would all be little commies.

In none of my posts have I said anything about retaliation or vengence - please don't take this discussion there.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
10.25.2012 , 11:29 AM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by Totaltrash View Post
...

It is irrelevant if they can use the loot or not, they are still entitled to the roll because they did the work.

...
Alright, let me take this point in specific.

You are 100% correct. They are absolutely entitled to an equal portion of the loot as they contributed the work.

But this is a very short-sighted look at things, and will actually SLOW your own personal gear progression. This is due to the fact that end-game loot drops (with the exception of Campaign and Dread Guard) are class specific. So when you go into a HM FP with 4 different classes, not only is there a 25% chance to win the roll, it is on top of an additional 25% chance that the drop will be for your class.

In the above example, you end up with a 6.25% chance to get the HM FP Columi token you need.

By restricting "Need" to direct personal gear upgrades, everyone would get geared up faster! See, if everyone needs on everything, sure they'll make more money, but have less opportunity to get the gear they can actually use. This is a bit like the Prisoner's Dilemma, actually.

And many smart Capitalists will favor the long-term greed over the short-term greed. Example: My business has given hefty discounts to clients in a market we just entered, for the purpose of building up a portfolio in that market. Two years later we can attract big fish who pay the big bucks.

To sum:
Everyone Needs on everything == Takes longer to gear up
Everyone Greeds on everything but Needs on direct main upgrades == Quicker to gear up

THAT'S why it's better.