Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

lock box debate


Liquidacid's Avatar


Liquidacid
10.14.2012 , 12:46 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by kooffee View Post
A. a pack of cards contain a pack of cards, regardless if one of them cards has a higher face value, but lets face it there is not a single set of cards in production with any special cards with a Monterey value, that would be a lottery and has such gambling, here in the UK and also in some states in the US. and if it does contain some kind of lottery the UK loophole is "no purchase necessary" so you are not forced to gamble 1000000 of packets to have a chance.
.
try every single collectible card game ever made... when you buy a pack of Magic, pokemon or whatever card games kids play now it's completely random what cards are in side and many of said cards are rare and and by virtue of that rarity can be sold for much much more than the others... it's flat out gambling... now I suppose you could argue it's different since the card's aren't given back to the producer for the cash and the customers set the value but in reality it is the same since the producers control the cards value by setting how many are produced... it's more involved than straight up gambling but the end results are exactly the same... I can walk into a gas station buy a lotto ticket. scratch it off and then either loose or win and give it to the lady behind the counter for cash... or I can walk into a comic shop buy a pack of collectible cards, open them and either get crap not worth anything or a rare which I can then sell to the guy behind the counter and walk out with cash

only difference with Lockboxes in an online game is technically you don't own anything in the game... your character and all the "loot" it has is owned by the company who runs the game and you are just paying rent to use it... that little fact right there could probably be used as a loophole to get around any gambling laws
"bibo ergo sum" ( I drink, therefore I am)

Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.

kooffee's Avatar


kooffee
10.14.2012 , 12:59 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by kevlarto View Post
My question about thses lock boxes, will I need them to progress my toon ? are they something I will need to play the game ? or are they like a fun little grab bag, you pay for and see what you get ? Will I be forced to buy them or will be just an option ? if they are not needed for me to progress my toon what is the problem ? is some one afraid some one might get someting cooler out of a lock box than they have ? I am not a fan of random things when it does have a direct influence on my game play, but some thing on the side like this could be fun, I have already seen the dev's say nothing that special is going into them, armor that is already in the game.. I dunno I think I see allot of knee jerking reaction to a non issue once again.. /shrug

But maybe I am wrong time will tell, plus I don't really care..
the only answer people can give is by experience in other games and generally the answer is

The more lockboxes tht sell the more and more the game starts to be moulded around them. after the first few months lockboxes become the media of choice of releasing content.

Mithros's Avatar


Mithros
10.14.2012 , 06:00 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by Ster-Ling View Post
You tried to argue that you do, in fact, know what's in the lockbox: gear.

Evidently you can't redefine "gear" broadly enough to cover sparkle powder, so here we are.

The fact is, you really don't khow what's in it. Nice try, saying "gear," though.
Nor do you.

But something is in there. That is all that matters.

So you can call sparkle powder gear or loot or sparkle powder. Make narrow enough categories and you can exclude a lot of stuff.

I never said that the boxes would contain nothing but things that you could wear and/or use as a weapon. You are the one that decided that that was what 'gear' meant.

Nice try putting words in my mouth.

Ah, who am I trying to kid? Not a nice try at all, just so much building of straw men.


Quote:
So now your argument is that you know what isn't in the lockbox: anything of value.
Nope. That was my point all along.

Everyone else was using the card analogy so I stuck with that, but then someone wants to come along and make a big deal of that, so I decided to try and explain things in the clearest way possible.

Quote:
Yet people valued the in the ingame items associated with the CE and VIP vendors enough to pay extra for the game. Because, whether or not you wish to assign those ingame items an actual value, people perceive value in such items as exclusive speeders and costume pieces that can't be obtained through gameplay.
What makes you think that you matter enough to have what you think has or should have value will actually have value for that reason alone?

Who cares if someone bought the CE for the trooper armor? The trooper armor has no real value.


Quote:
The perceived value of these virtual items is enough that people will exhibit behaviors associated with gambling; and whether or not you concede that it's really gambling, lockboxes are proven to succeed at exploiting those behaviors.

Call it gambling, or not. It doesn't matter. People are going to spend their money gambling on those boxes.
So reality doesn't matter? Only what you think matters?

So have you called your local gaming commision or whatever authorities would be the ones to review this as a gambling issue?

Did you tell them that what the law says doesn't matter because you say it's gambling?
Beta Squadron 157

As long as we remember, it's never really gone.

Ster-Ling's Avatar


Ster-Ling
10.14.2012 , 08:47 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
Nice try putting words in my mouth.

Ah, who am I trying to kid? Not a nice try at all, just so much building of straw men.
Nobody put words in your mouth: you said you know what's in the lockbox, that it's gear. Later you said you know what isn't in the lockbox. These statements formed the basis of your arguments and refuting them isn't building strawmen. The fact is, saying that the box has something, then that it has nothing, is just arguing semantics. You don't know what's in the box and neither does anybody else.

Quote:
What makes you think that you matter enough to have what you think has or should have value will actually have value for that reason alone?
This sentence doesn't parse and could use some editing. Also it's a great example of what you tried to accuse me of doing: building a strawman argument. But I'll field it anyway.

My opinion of the value of a lockbox doesn't matter at all. What matters is that virtual items in games represent a value to mmo game customers. Whether they foolishly misappropriate a lasting value to the items or they more reasonably see an entertainment value in them, inasmuch as the virtual items ehance their enjoyment of the game, players do ascribe value to virtual items. A value for which they have demonstrated willingness to pay real money.

My opinion of this value, like yours, is irrelevant. People pay for virtual items and they will pay for lockboxes the contents of which are unknown, on the possibility that they may contain virtual items they want to "have."

Quote:
So reality doesn't matter? Only what you think matters?
All along, that has been your argument, not mine. You know what's in the boxes, you know what isn't in them. Caveat emptor, there is nothing of value in lockboxes. But reality will tell a different story. Virtual items represent an entertainment value to mmo customers, and whether or not I would ever pay real money for a sparklepony, people buy them and value them.

Trying to say that lockboxes aren't gambling because that value isn't real is just arguing semantics. Semantic arguments may be sufficient to keep this issue out of court, but it doesn't justify the business practice of monetizing art assets through a system whose only purpose is to expoit gambling behaviors on the part of customers.

BaronV's Avatar


BaronV
10.14.2012 , 11:12 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by Mithros View Post

Once again, unless it is stuff that you have to have rather than merely things that you might like to have, then it doesn't matter.

And if you see some thing(s) that you want to have (want, not need, but want. There is a difference) and do not have enough of the Cartel coins, you can save them up and get the item next month.

I know. Saving money. Crazy concept, but every day I do not buy things that I want because I decide that I would rather do other things with my money, including saving it up for a bigger purchase later.
The fallacy of this argument is that as a paying subscriber I shouldn't have to pay any additional real money or save up my "monthly allowance" in order to get any sort of in game content. period.

I, like almost everyone here, bought this game before the F2P annoucement - when our expectation was that this is a subscription game
I used to be a Jedi like you - until I took a blaster bolt to the knee

Leggomy's Avatar


Leggomy
10.15.2012 , 12:16 AM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by BaronV View Post
The fallacy of this argument is that as a paying subscriber I shouldn't have to pay any additional real money or save up my "monthly allowance" in order to get any sort of in game content. period.

I, like almost everyone here, bought this game before the F2P annoucement - when our expectation was that this is a subscription game
This still is a subscription game and will remain a subscription game after the f2p switch. You guys are freaking out about something that you made up in your head. Nowhere does it say you have to buy anything from the store.

BaronV's Avatar


BaronV
10.15.2012 , 12:32 AM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by Leggomy View Post
This still is a subscription game and will remain a subscription game after the f2p switch. You guys are freaking out about something that you made up in your head. Nowhere does it say you have to buy anything from the store.
This thread is operating on several assumptions because of the lack of info. I was posting based on those assumptions.

Of course i wouldnt have to buy the items. but If i want them and they are ONLY available in the cash shop through the gambling lockboxes thats not the slightest bit fair to me as a subscriber is it?!
I used to be a Jedi like you - until I took a blaster bolt to the knee

Spoletta's Avatar


Spoletta
10.15.2012 , 12:38 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by Leggomy View Post
This still is a subscription game and will remain a subscription game after the f2p switch. You guys are freaking out about something that you made up in your head. Nowhere does it say you have to buy anything from the store.
This.

Bloodstealer's Avatar


Bloodstealer
10.15.2012 , 02:37 AM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
I know a lot of parents dealing with this kind of thing in other games, even if it's not a "gambling" situation, you have to monitor your kids when it comes to micro transactions. That's being a parent and teaching your kids to be responsible. Again, since this is all speculation, it's hard to debate it. Maybe there will be an age verification/parental controls when this system gets put in place. There are things similar to this in GW2 also, but I've felt no motivation to pursue them. The boxes just sit in my bank.

This also reminds me of those machines where you pick up stuffed animals with a claw. Those machines are programmed to miss for so many times. So those machines are kind of gambling in a sense. Yet they are legal. :/
Except in GW2 you actually have a chance of looting the keys or getting them as a reward.

I have looted 2 so far in just over a week, I have also been given one as a reward.. when opening my first BLTC chest i found another key inside it.. so its only gambling if you choose to open the cashstore and spend your coin.. if its an item that only drops via paid micro transactions then sure it wouldn't appeal to me.. but people forget it maybe be a game but its also a business.. how many people play the lottery every week in the UK or EU or US etc etc...only difference is, and I agree with the posts on here, there is no age verification as yet and that's where parents need to be extra vigilant with any game where there is exposure to adult material/content.
Leader of The Misfits & Mercenaries Guild.
Death or Glory - It's all just a game to me!

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
10.15.2012 , 02:41 AM | #110
I think that's a bit unfair....nobody made up swtor having lockboxes. That was announced officially. What we don't know is what will be in them, how much they will cost, whether they will all contain particular advertise items and what they will be, etc.. The fear is the slippery slope. The fear that they'll go as far as some other games did. Obviously it's silly to be upset over something that may never happen, but I think it's good to have this discussion publicly and voice our opinions on the matter so that EA knows where their customers stand.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant