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Enlighten me...Need a reality check Assassin.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Enlighten me...Need a reality check Assassin.

Soljin's Avatar


Soljin
10.12.2012 , 02:17 PM | #1
Not a Nerf call but a serious question.

Since 1.4 I have had a major issue countering Assasins/Mirror. I attribute this issue somewhat to the resolve change but not entirely. So maybe they have always had this potential...and I have not run into a good one since the Nerf of the Super self healing Tankasin.

Now What Im asking for is a straight up schooling here..I have not been able to come up with a counter on my own...So Im asking for help...and some smart remarks are fine as well.

Im Running a LOLDerpaSmash Jugg or whatever its called now...and have been for some time. I hold my own well enough but get stomped occasionally by a Well played AC of any type really. In the Den I usually Win the majority of my encounters with the occassional cloner trip. Jugg isnt tough to play we all know that.

Now I run into a Sin the other day that challenges me to a duel...I accept and of course end up on my face...i dont hit my Breaker fast enough and take serious dmg from the opening rotation...I then pop Saber Ward and go to work...Immune to my first Smash ...they blew their CD just before I hit the button (Just saw it coming)...I screamed first incase of KB etc....Now I have a DoT dropped on me and am getting kited...Start into my next rotation and die.

BTW Im full WH 20k HP 1250 Expertise etc...

Have run into this same encounter a few times and If I trinket fast and turn the tables I just eat a stun...and then my previous example occurs...Seems like they have an answer no matter what I do.

So in summary: Are there tips for turning this in my favor....I would love advice... You dont always know when they are around so its pretty hard to not start out on your face...and some of them seem to do some serious hurt in a very short time...and its hard to recover from. So Enlighten me.

If you feel the urge to L2P me go to one of the Gear gap threads instead.
Born on Bria.
Clone Zerging Since 2003!

Joesixxpack's Avatar


Joesixxpack
10.12.2012 , 02:27 PM | #2
Good thread idea, looking forward to replies myself. I have an assassin (no mirror) and was going to log in to it this weekend to see if I can figure out why I'm having a harder time with them in PVP lately than I used to. Haven't played it in a while and not aware yet firsthand how any nerfs or buffs might have played out.

Dencre's Avatar


Dencre
10.12.2012 , 02:29 PM | #3
What spec is the Sin you are fighting?
Dencre BetchPuddin

HynrihkMutilation

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
10.12.2012 , 02:34 PM | #4
Soljin... from my experience, assassins are a tough counter for many classes and probably the best 1v1 class in game. My opinion anyways but maybe it's because I have a hard time countering them as well. One of my guildies that I play with more than anyone else is a very good assassin. Palmsolo, you've probably seen him around. He's run almost every spec there is out there and does well with them all. We duel fairly often and with my marauder... annihilation is normally my best bet. Those duels go very back and forth but with rage spec... it normally doesn't end well for me. I think rage is just a lousy counter to an assassin.

Anyways... since we're same server and same faction. He'll most likely be on tonight and you can jump in our vent if you want. I'm sure he'd be willing to break down countering assassins of each spec. We could even make a dueling event out of it. It's been a while since I've rounded one up but the turnout is usually pretty good and makes for a good time.

Hit me up later if you want. I should be on tonight and he prolly will be too.

Uglymrj
Uglymr-j
Awshii'et
Ug'ajug

I'll most likely be on one of the first two.

RankorSSGS's Avatar


RankorSSGS
10.12.2012 , 03:18 PM | #5
Lol, whats up ugly my man

Anyway, to the topic at hand. The cold hard truth is that your rage spec is just a straight up lousy counter to assassins. From reading your post, I am having a difficult time trying to figure out what spec this assassin is. You say he puts dots on you, which leads me to say madness, but you also describe a powerful opener, and some really big burst, which comes from deception. Madness does have some burst potential, but not at the levels your talking about. And deception has no dots, unless they take 2 secs to cast a crushing darkness, which I'm sure you would have noticed. So my best guess is that he was playing a 14/27 hybrid or some variant. But either way, it just sucks to be a rage warrior vs assassins. Madness can dot you up and just kite all day. Deception knocks you on your butt and unloads. You mentioned him resisting your first smash, which can be attributed to force shroud.

I mostly play deception, and am more familiar with it, so from here on in ill speak about that spec. First off, we get a straight 30% AOE damage reduction, plus another 25% from Dark Embrace, which will likely be up, especially in duels. So your OMGWTF 6k smash was just turned into 2-3k. And that pretty much kills rage spec right then and there, without that big hit, your done. And then deception will follow it up with multiple 5-6k hits of their own. Deception assassins are among the hardest bursting classes in the game, if not number 1. And yes, they do have a lot off cc, with Deception getting an extra 4 sec mezz in addition to everything else the class gets. Honestly, the matchup is just so far in Deception assassins favor, that I really have very little help to offer you, other than do not be caught alone, as that is where Deception thrives, in 1v1s. Pop your cds, use freezing force and crush to slow them as much as you can, try to kite if you can. Popping those cds will help with the initial burst.

At the end of the day though, Rage spec is the new FOTM, because OP or not, its easy, fun, and gets big results. And Deception assassins serve as the best counter to them right now, with their ability to resist or shrink that 6k smash, and then retaliate with multiple huge hits of their own. Rock, paper, scissors kind of matchup here.
Vesharia, Zannáh, Xeshara Retired due to broken class
Jetii'ka - Combat/Focus Bloodfrenzie - Carnage/Rage
Pot5/Bastion

Biggilus's Avatar


Biggilus
10.12.2012 , 03:27 PM | #6
EDIT: The post above me says exactly what I'm thinking, minus typos and totally worn out mind that may lead to some sentences not making much sense :P

Well firstly sins can get 60-70% dmg reduction to your smashy smashy. But I gather that isn't your problem with them as you were focusing on their ability to interupt/resists/cc you a lot? Well yea I guess it's just the amount of tools we get. Low Slash, Spike, Stun, that's 3 I use a lot. out of combat mez, but that couldn't have affected your duels.

Also have to point out that smashy-smashies are my prime target as they're just so squishy too. Been loving the assassin with 1.4 love.

You mentioned dotted and kited? Madness assassins are rare, played it a few times and had great fun but lacked the spike potential.

Smash specs counter is normally just ti pure out-DPS I imagine? Just can't be done against an assassin really :/

Soljin's Avatar


Soljin
10.12.2012 , 03:31 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by RankorSSGS View Post
Lol, whats up ugly my man

Anyway, to the topic at hand. The cold hard truth is that your rage spec is just a straight up lousy counter to assassins. From reading your post, I am having a difficult time trying to figure out what spec this assassin is. You say he puts dots on you, which leads me to say madness, but you also describe a powerful opener, and some really big burst, which comes from deception. Madness does have some burst potential, but not at the levels your talking about. And deception has no dots, unless they take 2 secs to cast a crushing darkness, which I'm sure you would have noticed. So my best guess is that he was playing a 14/27 hybrid or some variant. But either way, it just sucks to be a rage warrior vs assassins. Madness can dot you up and just kite all day. Deception knocks you on your butt and unloads. You mentioned him resisting your first smash, which can be attributed to force shroud.

I mostly play deception, and am more familiar with it, so from here on in ill speak about that spec. First off, we get a straight 30% AOE damage reduction, plus another 25% from Dark Embrace, which will likely be up, especially in duels. So your OMGWTF 6k smash was just turned into 2-3k. And that pretty much kills rage spec right then and there, without that big hit, your done. And then deception will follow it up with multiple 5-6k hits of their own. Deception assassins are among the hardest bursting classes in the game, if not number 1. And yes, they do have a lot off cc, with Deception getting an extra 4 sec mezz in addition to everything else the class gets. Honestly, the matchup is just so far in Deception assassins favor, that I really have very little help to offer you, other than do not be caught alone, as that is where Deception thrives, in 1v1s. Pop your cds, use freezing force and crush to slow them as much as you can, try to kite if you can. Popping those cds will help with the initial burst.

At the end of the day though, Rage spec is the new FOTM, because OP or not, its easy, fun, and gets big results. And Deception assassins serve as the best counter to them right now, with their ability to resist or shrink that 6k smash, and then retaliate with multiple huge hits of their own. Rock, paper, scissors kind of matchup here.
Thanks for the response...and this is kind of what I expected to hear. Generally I can tell if I was just outplayed when I think back and go "DoH! I should have done this" But with this match up I really just end up feeling pretty helpless...and have very little to take away from the fight as far as future ideas.

Im not sure of the build either. I would have asked but the Person I dueled was chain dueling their Mara friend...and after taking me out pretty much ignored me and declined all my duel requests after...I wanted to try some different approaches but they snubbed me
Born on Bria.
Clone Zerging Since 2003!

Soljin's Avatar


Soljin
10.12.2012 , 03:34 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
Soljin... from my experience, assassins are a tough counter for many classes and probably the best 1v1 class in game. My opinion anyways but maybe it's because I have a hard time countering them as well. One of my guildies that I play with more than anyone else is a very good assassin. Palmsolo, you've probably seen him around. He's run almost every spec there is out there and does well with them all. We duel fairly often and with my marauder... annihilation is normally my best bet. Those duels go very back and forth but with rage spec... it normally doesn't end well for me. I think rage is just a lousy counter to an assassin.

Anyways... since we're same server and same faction. He'll most likely be on tonight and you can jump in our vent if you want. I'm sure he'd be willing to break down countering assassins of each spec. We could even make a dueling event out of it. It's been a while since I've rounded one up but the turnout is usually pretty good and makes for a good time.

Hit me up later if you want. I should be on tonight and he prolly will be too.

Uglymrj
Uglymr-j
Awshii'et
Ug'ajug

I'll most likely be on one of the first two.
Yeah that would be great. Ill try to hit you up..Im working 3hrs from home so its hit or miss if I get home in time to play. If I do I'll hit you up. Thanks.
Born on Bria.
Clone Zerging Since 2003!

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
10.12.2012 , 03:39 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Soljin View Post
Yeah that would be great. Ill try to hit you up..Im working 3hrs from home so its hit or miss if I get home in time to play. If I do I'll hit you up. Thanks.
Sounds good... home in just over 3 hours and probably be on most of the night and a lot of tomorrow as well. Even if you miss us just add me. Me and Palm are both pretty active so I'm sure it wouldn't take long to catch up with us.

Oh yeah... what up Rank!

Catch ya tonight mang!

rob_y's Avatar


rob_y
10.12.2012 , 03:56 PM | #10
I don't really have any great tips (I don't have an Assassin / Shadow above 19, so I don't know the class well enough to help see it from their perspective), but it's a huge disadvantage to play a Focus spec against any class you can't Force Leap + Sweep against to open (so, stealth and Gunslingers/Snipers). That's a huge bunch of upfront burst lost right there.

I'm a little unclear on when you're saying you're using your CC breaker, though - is it on the knockdown? I don't know if that's the best time to use it (using a CC breaker to get out of being incapacitated for two seconds isn't as useful as it could be elsewhere).

I don't really duel much - just trying to think of 1v1 situations I come across in warzones.
Yan (55 - Scoundrel) Silch (50 - Guardian) Hoeven (50 - Commando)
Thith'yan (50 - Sorceror) D'lamia (50 - Marauder) Brazo (55 - Powertech)
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