Judging the game too harsh

...Im thinking you might need to use more than a focus group of ONE to prove your model. Just sayin.

Because saying either a lack of box sales or an abundance of box sales followed by a huge loss of players does not mean a game has problems or did not meet the markets expectations....well....that just sounds a bit silly to me.

Years ago, a TV show still on today on G4tech trashed the game cube "Zelda-the windwaker"-- the complaint was it had cel shaded graphics and this was unacceptable in the current console era.
I am willing to bet the majority of people who would otherwise play this game listened to this and assumed the graphics were crappy. Most people probably didnt even play it once.
Actually, the game was beautiful, and the game was fun and had alot of nice features that didnt exist in previous Zelda games. The game was attacked because at the time the show was very biased against Nintendo.(which I think it still is)
My point is, there are some people out there who have to be food critics. If you have something good, you will never hear from them. You will only hear about the bad stuff no matter how much good stuff you do.
SWTOR has alot of awesome features, and Im sure they have plenty more on the way. I would like to see people come back to the game and Id like to see it grow and even take the throne away from Blizzard/WoW.
Right now, I think the biggest issues are from technical problems. There are features the game doesnt have that would be nice, but I dont think we are seriously "lacking".

Nice post though. it's nice to know some people dont jump on every game bandwagon they see. The good def outweighs the bad, too bad games have to cater to every entitled brat with an ipad in order to keep numbers up, the older gamers seem to be too busy.
Awesome story each class could be its own game, awesome combat that flows smoothly, crew skills are fun and easy, space combat is a fun side game with lots of potential to expand it could be its own stand alone game. Lots of places to explore, lots of room to grow in general
we have emotes, and orange gear we can look how we want, more races will come

Cons:
We dont have open world pvp objectives (YET) , the game lags on low settings, players skip most content and burn through Ops then complain there's nothing left, sith grosly outnumber Republic to the point of frustration

Meh I still love it overall and am patient enough for a few minor fixes

A fickle Nomadic Gamer appears...

http://sebastiancopelandadventures.c...ite-Desert.jpg

My bad, didnt know you were coming. thought I was on a forum for the exchange of pov's didnt think you'd expect a spreadsheet. Yeah she's my main example because she actually does represent a class of gamer. IM not trying to convince anyone that class of gamer exists in abundance, they already know.

As for box sales, the most they can represent is a company managed to grab interest long enough for someone to take our their wallet. Most people cant try a game before they buy it, box sales dont show how good a game is or how many were returned (go to any gamestop a day after any AAA game comes out and you'll find it in the used bin) As for retaining subs, it's the same. my point is that the mentioned class of gamer inflates and deflates the subs of every game they come in contact with and by nature we know that no matter what the game is /how good it is, this gamer will only stay with it for a short time.
A drop in subs = the 2nd hand bin for MMO's
That crowd that left Tor, they have already been to and abandoned GW2, and are now on the new wow expansion, come January they will be onto something else.

Pretty much. Been a good long hop-run for them this year with all the new MMOs.

It will be interesting to see what they do once they run through the Panda content (which, using history on recent expansions there is probably 3-4 months). Are there any new MMOs or major expansions coming out in January that could feed them? Then again, I'm sure many are also single player game box consumers, so maybe they just switch to that for a while since there should be plenty of fresh content to consume and discard given we are coming up on holiday season.

well its not only the stuttering though, I have quite a few i7s and a i5 in my household, I also use a cable modem and a dsl in my household both are as high as i can get.I have laptops that can run multiple copys of other games on maxed out settings and my desktops look like something from nasa, really.On my main PC I can easily run 20 copys of wow, keyclone and dual box them all efficiently, in fact I do so every day with them all maxed out.

Swtor however I have to turn off my second monitors or I see ribbons all over my screen like the old tkm animations.Once my second monitor is turned off, I have to make sure nothing else is running in the background, Also i cant play it in windowed mode it has to be fullscreen and everything in start menu has to be turned off.

That could be dealt with easily enough however in addition to that it still stutters, takes forever to load screens, and really the only thing enjoyable is some parts of ground.Pvp in swtor is a joke at best, skill means nothing, its gear and stuns that win the day.Already got that in wow where the cc's are not as rampant and break on damage.at least there I am in control of any character I play 95% of the time.Much more fun, try it out.

Even though I do hate to use wow to compare to this, its the easiest to do so with.once you get past the cartoony graphics of wow its still a better game, even though they tried to clone it with star wars, they failed.

I played swg a long time, I put up with the CU, and the NGE and all the other changes that came down the pipe, I watched csr's do questionable things and can name specifics instances of certain csrs on lowca, and ahazi giving guildys jetpacks and such to provide advantages, so to come see this game in this shape after paying for it? yeah..there is a reason this games collectors edition sells for $15.00 bucks and its well deserved with the current state of it, Alot of fan boys are blinded by 'it's starwars i r teh jedi' syndrome, and do not see the imbalances and shortcomings of a playable game that takes some form of skill.

The old Verant slogan was actually a knock at the cluster****'s that were MMO's at the time. All of the previous MMO's took the "hands off" approach to managing the game world and the result was pure chaotic nonsense. Uber guilds and 18 hour/day players ruled the games, usually via cheats, haks, exploits and other shady means. At that point in history MMO's were imploding because open world free for all PvP was chasing away 100 players for every 1 it attracted.

Verant's giant leap was to eliminate PvP entirely from the equation and presto! MMO's went from 100 players online at a time to a hundred thousand, almost overnight.

Till that point, PvP was seen as a "must-have" and no game could survive without it. Kind of how "accessible" (ie. easy, simple, kid-friendly, casual-friendly) is now a must-have. All it took back then was one developer with a spine to take a chance and if they hadn't, MMO's probably would not exist today.

This is exactly what the MMO industry needs today, someone to take a chance and break the WoW model, not just tweak it by putting it in space.

Can you link me a reputable and peer-reviewed source that has done some statistical analyses that states that the current gamers are game hoppers are right now compared to a couple years ago. Right now, it seems to me that you are just looking at some charts and making your own interpretations. My problem with you saying this position is that people game hop all the time. They buy games, see if they like it, if they don't, they moved on, thus "game hopping" to the next. And in the cases that they do like it, once they finished it and there is no more content to burn or if the endgame content is boring, they moved on, thus "game hopping", but if they do like it and there is an endgame content that is dynamic, then they do stay. You seem to forget that this is a natural rational behaviour of the consumer. Unless I'm mistaken, you seem to use this common truth to your argument and argue why they game hop alot. Judging by your posts on this thread, the reason your argument is fallacious and disingenious is that you rely completely on natural behaviour to the lost of subs in the game, and at the same time ignoring the other possibilities that may explain why the game lost subs. A more apt question for you to answer is why they game hop to the next game? Did it ever occur to you that it may have something to do with the design of the game?

I have always felt it was a game nothing more. It entertained me and when it didn't, I walked away. I had some gripes about certain features, but you know it's only a game. It's not the be all end all solution to why my life sucked and I came here to transfer that anger. I'm back to enjoy myself, love HK love star wars. I think they the "developers" could really turn this around. but you need support that's positive for that to happen. I think we can support the game without sounding like we work for them, and it could benefit all of us.