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Which tank is the less hectic to tank with

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Tanking
Which tank is the less hectic to tank with

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
10.07.2012 , 04:13 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by sumuser View Post
I hardly think PT is "easy" mode and all you juggs and assiassins are the "real" tanking players (no, no one has directly said it but it is implied).
I've never said that PT/VGs aren't real tanks. I've simply made the almost universally agreed upon assertion that PT/VG tanking is *outrageously* easy to do while there is actually some not-insubstantial degree of skill required to play the other other tank classes. I've got personal experience on all 3 types of tanks doing endgame content and draw my conclusions from those experiences, not to mention what you would figure out by simply examining the relevant classes and their abilities: the only things VGs really have to do, beyond simply spam their attacks, is make sure that they don't let their Power Screen stacks drop, which is accomplished by using their primary resource dump; other than that, it's just watching ammo. Warriors and Shadows both have more mechanics to watch and more buttons to press, both of which mean that it takes more skill/attention/effort to play the class effectively.

I've also never stated that PT/VGs are somehow subpar tanks (which is what hatstandard has outright claimed concerning Shad/Sins and Jugg/Guards). Proficiently played, all of the tanks are going to perform roughly identically. There are minor differences in mitigation and dps/tps, but not enough to outright state that one class is inferior to the other. However, when played such that you eke as much as possible out of the class as you can, there is a marked difference: VGs simply have too little about them that is concerned with player skill to eke much more out of them than is normally achieved; their tank CDs are mediocre and universally applicable (and they're short 1 compared to Guards and Shadows, which further exacerbates it) and they're almost entirely focused on passive mitigation. Guardians and Shadows, since they've both got substantially more active mitigation coupled with a greater number of CDs (Shadows more than Guardians because the CDs are specific to types of attacks rather than universal and happen to be on substantially shorter CDs so they can be used more often to greater effect), are, by virtue of design, capable of getting more thanks to how they operate. It's no slight to VGs; it's simply a statement of fact. They have fewer mechanics to use and abuse for further benefit.
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Nortumberland's Avatar


Nortumberland
10.12.2012 , 12:15 PM | #12
Evening! I would be very grateful if someone could give me an exhaustive answer on my question.

I have Guardian and Vanguard, both geared BH and I perform well on both( though I haven't tried TFB HM/EC HM on Guardian). So may I rely on taking noticeably less dmg and give some advantage to my raid if i go Guardian instead of Vanguard? Only thing I hear from my guild is that Guardian is bad for TFB and EC HMs since he has low hp (24k mine and the the dmg they deal is elemental) and it's a pain for healers, and having more "save buttons" and more defence doesn't help at all. I'm really puzzled coz it feels like Vanguard really can't perform better doesn't matter how skilled I am, but if he has the same potency in survival I might not worry at all and stay on him?

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
10.12.2012 , 12:34 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Nortumberland View Post
So may I rely on taking noticeably less dmg and give some advantage to my raid if i go Guardian instead of Vanguard?
Assuming you're playing your Guardian properly, you'll take more damage on an equivalently geared VG compared to a Guardian. VGs also have fewer CDs and functionally weaker CDs than either of the other 2 tanks. The only advantages that VGs have over the other tanks is that they are *ludicrously* simple to play and that they have the most level incoming damage (because of their reliance upon massive amounts of shield/absorb and armor as opposed to defense).

Quote:
he has low hp (24k mine
24k is more than enough hp. Assuming you're not wasting itemization on accuracy and we're talking about equivalently geared characters, you're going to have more mitigation thanks to that lower hp: you'll take less damage from mitigatable sources and have more than enough hp to survive those attacks that you can't mitigate.

Quote:
and the the dmg they deal is elemental)
VGs are actually the worst tanks for elemental damage: they have the lowest I/E DR (19% compared to the 20% amd 21% of Guardians and Shadows respectively) and Shadows and Guardians both have direct damage counteraction mechanisms (Guardian barrier and Shadow self heals) that allow them to mitigate all types of damage.

Quote:
and it's a pain for healers, and having more "save buttons" and more defence doesn't help at all.
The only really useful CD that VGs get is Reactive Shield (Smoke Grenade should be used on CD and Adrenaline Rush, like all of the self heal CDs, is of marginal use as a CD). Guardians get Warding Call (which is *better* than Reactive Shield) and Saber Ward (also better than Reactive Shield). Anyone that thinks that you can't get more out of those 2 CDs than a VG gets out of Reactive Shield simply doesn't know how to use their CDs.

I'm gonna bet that your guild is relying upon their experiences with random pugs as opposed to real analysis of the classes. A lot of poorly informed guilds see VGs as the only effective tanks because it's really hard to screw up playing one so, in randoms, VGs *seem* like they're better than the other tanks. In the hands of a good player, all of the tanks are going to be equally good. In the hands of a *great* player, VGs are going to be the worst (for much the same reason that they're hard to screw up: they don't rely on player skill).
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Nortumberland's Avatar


Nortumberland
10.12.2012 , 02:20 PM | #14
Thank you a lot, mate! That really sounds encouraging so I will continue playing on my guardian than

Powerrmongerr's Avatar


Powerrmongerr
10.12.2012 , 04:18 PM | #15
There's a lot of interesting discussions in this thread about the merits/weakenesses/strengths of the various tanking classes, but as to your original question there is absolutely no doubt that PT/VG is much, much easier to play. The other two tanking classes are far more hectic, require the juggling of far more abilities, and the skill barrier for entry for top end content is much higher for Shadows/Assassins/Juggs/Guardians. For certain Juggernaut/Guardian builds, on top of the myriad abilities and cooldowns to keep an eye on, resource management is an utter pain.

PT/Vanguards have very high baseline mitigation/armor, a couple of easy to maintain/spam debuffs to keep track of, a very easy to monitor resource, and two straight-forward cooldowns.

Nortumberland's Avatar


Nortumberland
10.13.2012 , 04:58 AM | #16
Well I'm used to Guardian mechanic and it's quite interesting The question is if there is a big deal to be tormented by applying greater efforts playing JK if he has pretty the same survival potency as Vanguard We don't have a Guardian tank in our guild so I can't ask healers if it's comfortable healing him.

MadVillian's Avatar


MadVillian
10.13.2012 , 04:48 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by sumuser View Post
I think there is a lot of "overinflated sense of the potency" that goes on in these forums. No, you're not "cooler" or more "awesome" because you jugg tank or assassin tank. All tanks have strengths and weaknesses that play to different gaming styles. I hardly think PT is "easy" mode and all you juggs and assiassins are the "real" tanking players (no, no one has directly said it but it is implied). This entire game, while more complex then your average FPS, is pretty simple once you get a hang of it and practice.
This

/end thread

Taleek's Avatar


Taleek
11.02.2012 , 12:27 PM | #18
Well there's also smoke grenade/oil slick which reduces the accuracy of enemies, so that's sort of another defensive CD.
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OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
11.02.2012 , 01:03 PM | #19
Yea I play powertech tank, its ludicrously simple. But I like that most times cause it allows me to spend more of my awareness on making sure positioning is right, timing mechanics, and watching to make sure other raid members aren't being stupid. I don't kid myself that I'm a top-tier tank though, and really I don't like tanking all that much. But with PT tanking, its just like dpsing, except I'm standing in a different place and I want things to hit me. Also I always liked the high armor/shield stats for leveling out incoming damage. My old healers back when we were learning echm always told me that I was the easiest to heal tank they've ever ran with. However, in the guild I'm in now, we've got a couple assassins that have really impressed me, I've also seen some that make me cry.

Yea, pt/vgs are the worst on internal and elemental damage, the other tanks are demonstrably better there.

One other thing though, I heard the other day that the jugg/guard 40% cool down gets added separate from base damage reduction, actually making it worse than the powertech reactive shield. I've never specced defense on my guard the, is that the case?
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Taleek's Avatar


Taleek
11.03.2012 , 04:08 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by OlosBC View Post
Yea I play powertech tank, its ludicrously simple. But I like that most times cause it allows me to spend more of my awareness on making sure positioning is right, timing mechanics, and watching to make sure other raid members aren't being stupid. I don't kid myself that I'm a top-tier tank though, and really I don't like tanking all that much. But with PT tanking, its just like dpsing, except I'm standing in a different place and I want things to hit me. Also I always liked the high armor/shield stats for leveling out incoming damage. My old healers back when we were learning echm always told me that I was the easiest to heal tank they've ever ran with. However, in the guild I'm in now, we've got a couple assassins that have really impressed me, I've also seen some that make me cry.

Yea, pt/vgs are the worst on internal and elemental damage, the other tanks are demonstrably better there.

One other thing though, I heard the other day that the jugg/guard 40% cool down gets added separate from base damage reduction, actually making it worse than the powertech reactive shield. I've never specced defense on my guard the, is that the case?
It is not shown in your character sheet, I know that much, but I do not know if this actually means anything or not. Tests would have to be run on this, though personally I don't think it's the case.
*insert witty retort that will become someone's signature*- Kitty Prawn
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=347245
.- Never forget.
"DPS is science, healing is art, tanking is strategy."