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Judging the game too harsh


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Atanasov's Avatar


Atanasov
10.12.2012 , 10:38 AM | #151
Almost everyone from the exodus of players to several magazines.. hell even Forbes had an article about how it was a failure , only because of the quality of the game did not reflect the amount of money invested in to it. I still play it though.. I've been subbed since release.. I enjoy the game .. but it did not live up to its potential .. almost anyone can see that.

But fanbois will be fanbois, Just like when they said server pops aren't dropping.. then came server merge, they were still in denial and were saying game is doing fine and would never go F2P. Then F2P was announced lol
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LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
10.12.2012 , 10:39 AM | #152
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Accurate assessment in the context of the IP. The IP has a core fan base, and coupled with an MMO fan base it does have a sizable stable core representing the blend of the two. Adding in a dual access model will draw in more from the core fan base that otherwise is uninterested in MMOs, and it will bring back some of the MMO base that is uninterested in paying a subscription for an MMO (any MMO).

The heavy attrition of subscriptions after launch (which by way follows a very normal attrition curve for MMOs these days) represents the nomadic game hopping segment of the player base that only wants their particular perfect embodiment (in their mind) of what an MMO is. People don't like to hear it and some will staunchly deny it, but it is supported by hard data from the MMO population tracking services on the internet.
No Andryah, it's not. I'm sorry I have to disagree here...I know you make this point over and over, but no evidence exists that I have seen or has been presented that shows an attrition of 75 to 90 percent of a games player base in the first 9 months of a games launch. I have seen as high as 65 percent in 11 months....thats the top.

If your going by total players lost, sure, pure numbers can be matched, plenty of games have lost 700k to 1.2 million players in that time period, some even less (WoW naturally). But not right after launch, and not the majority of the playerbase.

And the games that came close? Most seem to agree across the web it was because the game did not live up to expectations, whatever they were at the time.

Though your contention has merit, certainly, and a case can be made for the idea that all games lose players...not to this extent. Something was and perhaps IS wrong here IMO.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
10.12.2012 , 10:39 AM | #153
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Accurate assessment in the context of the IP. The IP has a core fan base, and coupled with an MMO fan base it does have a sizable stable core representing the blend of the two. Adding in a dual access model will draw in more from the core fan base that otherwise is uninterested in MMOs, and it will bring back some of the MMO base that is uninterested in paying a subscription for an MMO (any MMO).

The heavy attrition of subscriptions after launch (which by way follows a very normal attrition curve for MMOs these days) represents the nomadic game hopping segment of the player base that only wants their particular perfect embodiment (in their mind) of what an MMO is. They can't find that perfect emobidment because it exists only inside their mind, so they continue in their never ending quest by hopping from MMO to MMO in search of the holy grail. People don't like to hear it and some will staunchly deny it, but it is supported by hard data from the MMO population tracking services on the internet.
WOW! Nothing but your wild theory and opinion. NOT ONE FACT! Just pure bias.
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LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
10.12.2012 , 10:42 AM | #154
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Not faith, and not opinion TUXs.

Actually, according to MMO data (which is among the most persistent and accurate tracker of MMO population activties for years now), the MMO player base is declining year over year. It is down about 10-15% now from it's peak in 2010. One of the reasons is that the more casual segments of the player base are moving on to game playing on their mobile smart phones. So, PC gaming (which includes MMOs) is becoming obsolete and being replaced by some consumers with mobile gaming options.
This I wholeheartedly agree with....AND if you add in normal market forces in the downturn AND normal game attrition you might come close to the losses here.

So I will concede that. Not that you need my validation naturally.

Roechacca's Avatar


Roechacca
10.12.2012 , 10:42 AM | #155
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
WOW! Nothing but your wild theory and opinion. NOT ONE FACT! Just pure bias.
It's the internet Tux, and yet this continues to surprise you every time...

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
10.12.2012 , 10:42 AM | #156
Quote: Originally Posted by Styxx View Post
EVE tells a different story. It is nowhere near the expected "AAA" numbers, but it does keep and grow its audience. Eve is around for a looooong time.

WOW tells the same story, only for the other end of the spectrum.

Anything else is a collection of various degrees of poor merchandise.
EVE appeals to a particular and more persistent segment of the player base. So in reality it is an excetion to the case rather then the case. But let's look at it over time. It began very small, and grew slowly over time, feeding the needs of a niche in the player base.

WoW is unique in the MMO market place history. If it launched today, it would bleed out like every other newly launched MMO. That said, prior to Panda launch... it had about 3M paid subscription accounts active (lets not coun the faux accounts in Asia that are not actually subscription accounts, and nobody knows how many are even active anymore). Now, WoW probably recouped most of the subs it lost (2M) over the last year, but if the reviews and comments being posted about it already all over the internet are indicative, it will see a rapid loss of 2M+ subs returning it to pre Panda launch levels by new years.
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Styxx's Avatar


Styxx
10.12.2012 , 10:42 AM | #157
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
WOW! Nothing but your wild theory and opinion. NOT ONE FACT! Just pure bias.
His point of view has merit... but only in the quality context. As in players leaving because the product is bad, not because they would leave anyway as part of a statistic.

I still believe that a quality product will sell well regardless, though.
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Ayarei's Avatar


Ayarei
10.12.2012 , 10:43 AM | #158
Quote: Originally Posted by Styxx View Post
EVE tells a different story. It is nowhere near the expected "AAA" numbers, but it does keep and grow its audience. Eve is around for a looooong time.

WOW tells the same story, only for the other end of the spectrum.

Anything else is a collection of various degrees of poor merchandise.
Eve has never been owned by a megacorp like EA, so you can't compare it to MMOs that are, not the same business model.

WoW has no customer loyalty, they never have. People have been quitting since Vanilla, they just make it so stupid easy to start playing WoW that people can quit and come back or new people can start playing without much trouble so it gives the appearance of a constant player base which isn't actually the case.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
10.12.2012 , 10:43 AM | #159
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
WOW! Nothing but your wild theory and opinion. NOT ONE FACT! Just pure bias.
Well..I don't think it's bias TUXs, just interpretation. It's perhaps not entirely accurate, but that is debatable IMO. But I don't think it's an outright fabrication.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
10.12.2012 , 10:43 AM | #160
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post
Not faith, and not opinion TUXs.

Actually, according to MMO data (which is among the most persistent and accurate tracker of MMO population activties for years now), the MMO player base is declining year over year. It is down about 10-15% now from it's peak in 2010. One of the reasons is that the more casual segments of the player base are moving on to game playing on their mobile smart phones. So, PC gaming (which includes MMOs) is becoming obsolete and being replaced by some consumers with mobile gaming options.
Yes, your statements were opinions formed from facts and your personal bias, not statistical analysis. The reasons WHY are many!!! Most having to do with crap games being sold to consumers because the fast $ is all companies like EA seem to be after. The whole "PC Gaming is dying" bull has been spewed for a decade or more.
All warfare is based on deception • If his forces are united, separate them • If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near • A leader leads by example not by force
My referral code: here ↔ What you get: here (1 FREE transfer • 7-day FREE sub • FREE Jumpstart and Preferred Bundles)
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