Judging the game too harsh

That's right. Besides the panda expansion just launch, which will always generate an influx of players. We need to give it two to three months to see if MoP is able to retain their current subscription numbers. I'm willing to bet that wow will start again to lose subscribers after the honey moon period in the expansion is over around December or November. There are already many complains about this new expansion ranging from crz to the absurd amount of dailies. Likewise, the gated content has the potential of backfiring on them and accelerate the rate of people who cancel their subscription. Thus, I don't expect MoP to retain customers for long.

Can you stop giving general numbers like"significant". You're probably talking about a % of players that used to play WoW before their was much choice + those that went "hey, what is this MMO thing people talk about?" But you're not giving any more precedence. I can easily say that there's a significant portion of the MMO database stays with WoW because they like WoW, and that's it. You're guessing that WoW, if released would bleed 60-70%. Congrats on throwing out theories based on internet forums and percentages based on other failing MMO's. You're doing nothing to convince me.

Um... Rift had less time and less resources... so shouldn't ToR have been better?

Seriously, you're just trolling right? There are multiple people shooting you down.

GW2 had no endgame.

Rift is two button spamming all of your macros in a version of WoW-lite.

I am also a harsh critic of this game, and offer no apologies. I do think that calling the game an overall failure, or ignoring the good parts of the game is not a fair and balanced stance to take. It's all to easy to deride the game and it's developers without giving credit where it is due.

The fact the game has lost 700k to 1.2 million players in under one year can not be ignored of course. If anything I believe it can be said that the game fell FAR short of expectations and is definitely a disappointment. Not sure I can label it a failure though.

I have long thought this is just the curse of Star Wars games. SWG and SWTOR have one thing in common IMO...

What they do well they do better than most games in the industry. And what they do badly is deplorable. It's really an exercise in extremes. Now, they are good and bad for different reasons IMO, but the effect is the same.

I would say that limited physics (at least until the overload nerf), storyline, VO, fun specials, ability to play an evil character, sound and facial expressions, design of some of the ships as well as some of the armor designs rate a 10 out of 10. I have yet to see an MMO that does it better. Also the ease at getting groups together to run heroics and flashpoints, at least early on is commendable, and difficulty levels seem right.

However, the ridiculous level of bugs, including some that have existed since beta, poor graphics engine, poor implementation of features like LFG and GTN, animation issues, graphics glitches, lack of social features, studdering and jerky gameplay, cooldown and activation issues, limited crafting appeal, Horrible HORRIBLE design of space combat, lack of repeatable sandbox content and lack of customization and poor texture/lighting implementation rate a 1 of 10. There is NO EXCUSE for this level of amateur design in a modern MMO.

This ends up giving the game a lukewarm rating of 6 out of 10 in my opinion. So much potential, but plagued by problems that they cant seem to surmount.

I have little faith that they will ever improve the product enough to rate higher on the scale, though I will concede the addition of moods and companion matching was a plus. Just seems like such a small thing that should not have taken 9 months to implement.

At any rate, this game is better than most games on the market IMO...but that isn't saying much.

Opinions get you nowhere.

If RIFT is better than why does TOR have far more subs?

MMOs grow at different rates and focus on different things. You seem to be unable to grasp that.

SWTOR is great fun, I also dont see why people are so harsh on it. I dont seem be experience any of these super annoying bugs people complain about. Only thing for me is I would like more end game, but thats just because our guild plays a lot and we storm through stuff.

A lots of the complainers seem to think they are doing the game a favour by being vocal about its issues........as if the devs dont know about them already.

if they know, why dont they fix it? some bugs have been here since launch

Number one reason I stopped my beta testing of WOW
Game gave me head aches as well
We not alone in this, its been actually widely stated by many many players (but for some weird reason many WOW Fanboys refuse to beleive it)

Course fact I also hated the game from top to bottom made leaving even easier!

I look at WOW and im reminded of that Simpsons episode when they goto Japan and see cartoons on TV that cause seizures! LOL

LOL your probably right but I know you got my point on how stupid it is for people to claim EA devs couldnt learn from previous titles and how 75-90% attrition rate is the "NORMAL" MMORPG growing pains attrition rate!

Sadly im not so sure TOR mistakes were the head honchos this time.
This has always felt more like unbridled arrogance at play then corporate interference regarding TOR.
The lines of communication have been so closed off that it just feels like the original team pulling a old Verrant saying (Original maker of EQ)
"Your in OUR world now"

They thought they knew best and were not open to feedback till it was far to late!

While I think EA completely interferes way to much and thats how DA franchise and ME franchise were ruined.
I think TOR might actually be on the devs.
They got free reign and lots of money and convinced themselves they knew best period!

/yawns

its getting boring now

The player base is the same as its always been

Make a solid product that will keep people entertained for long periods of time
and the people will stay

Make a product thats over in under a month and even the biggest fan will get bored after the month

Players the same and you really need to stop spewing this nonsense of how TOR and every other fast and sloppy MMORPG is just victims of mass genre attitude changes

The games are over to fast and thats why people move on so fast!

Player today is like a player 21 years ago

If they having fun and kept busy and active with quality game play
They will stay and play that game

And thats ALL there is to it

All this nonsense about changed attitudes and mass nomad behaviour is just more spin to blame the players and customers rather then to put the blame where it belong!

On the people developing lesser products despite having vastly more bells and whistles to play with.

GOOD DESIGN will NEVER go out of style and will ALWAYS attract long term followers!
Today, 21 years ago, or 100 years in the future
QUALITY NEVER goes out of style.

Don't blame the game or its developers for those lost players. It was never going to keep them. The stable audience for a well-run Star Wars MMO is 350,000-400,000 players. They oversold the boxes (EA is a champion box seller). Since the moment of release, we have been headed towards the game's natural size. Raging and wishing will not change the result.