Judging the game too harsh

WoW post cata? Lol... it's back at 10 million subscribers.

Please go back and read my original statement, where I pointed out that all recent (as in within the last 3-4 years) bleed out. Then go way back to WoW launch days.... and see it play out differently for not just WoW but all others i the same era.

And, now... look at the last expansion of WoW, and the fact that it bled out more then 50% of paid subscriptions (note the emphasis on paid subscriptions, NOT including the 6-7 million Asian pay to access accounts). This new expansion will likely be even worse.

The player base has changed between the two eras (WoW launch, and the last 36 months).

How about we conduct the discussion on level playing field.... SUBSCRIPTIONS. More then 6 million in the WoW number are Asia (non-NA and non-EU) pay to access accounts. They are not subscriptions and they are in a totally different economic and player access model.

There is a portion of the community that is nomadic, desperately trying to find something that captures their attention like WoW does for so many,

but saying the primary culprit of ToR's failing is a nomadic MMO playerbase is pure Poppycock.

The portion is significant now days, as compared to 7 years ago. The rash of hops and abandons on all the new MMOs over the last 24 months is proof of this. It's been consistently high attrition (60-70%) on every new MMO launch in the last 3 years. And if you read the concensus that comes from forum postings in the internet... it i pretty clear that they no longer invest in an MMO, they flash consume and then fixate on the next one coming. You can deny this if you like, but that does not change the fact that the community is materially nomadic in nature now days. When WoW launched, it was not. In fact, many of the existing MMOs at WoW launch retained players precisely because players were heavily invested in their MMOs. Now, days, they don't invest anymore, and therefore have no tie or inclination to stick with an MMO. Instead they game hop, sometimes in circular fashion moving from MMO to MMO over and over again. If WoW launched today, rather then in the less nomadic era of 7 years ago, it too would bleed out 60-70% of subscribers over it's first to 8 months. The player base has changed.



What I said was... the nature of the player base has materially moved to nomadic behaviors, evidenced by consistent pile_on_then_abandon on new MMO after new MMO. Which is not to say 100% of us are nomads, but rather that a majority are very much nomadic in their consumption styles now days.

With all due respect, I completely disagree with your assessment of player behaviour. You're explanation is very simplistic at best and you are trying to overgeneralize and categorize a certain behaviour and applying it on a whole population. I'm not sure your assessment of blaming the lost of subs rest solely on the, as you say, "nomadic" people who game hop a lot. The truth of the matter is, there are multiple factors that resulted on the lost of subs for this game. Factors that are problems in game, economic competition, economic trends, the innovation factor, game design problems, etc. To assume that it rest solely on the "nomad" gamer factor is blind and ignorant.

First off, let me say I have been a huge critic of this game since I first began playing the Beta more than a year ago.

However, lately I have been wondering if maybe a large majority of the community was too harsh in writing off TOR as a failure. Very few times did people point out the good (which regardless of your view everyone can agree the good in this game outweighs the bad by far).

I always said it seemed like two separate dev teams worked on this game.. the first set who worked on the starter planets and fps (Esseles, BT, TaralV, Foundry, MSprison) were doing the job right, and then another team was put help push more content in order to make the holiday 2011 release. It is apparent in many ways, but its most obvious when you notice that story and voice over are way more important early on in the game.. and falls completely flat by the time you entering Ops. For example Esseles, Taral V, and Maelstrom prison have engaging plot lines that freshen up the normal dungeon grind.. sure you can say that it gets old after a while, but it nonetheless makes a FP feel like a FP and not a dungeon. When we get to the Ops level.. and to some degree even PvP.. there is no real engaging plot line.. The storytelling is "meh" because it never achieves the goal of actually immersing you in the story (Should be more dynamic as you go through the op not a before/after thing, in fact more dialog and plot choices should be given that affect the outcome of events, bosses, and even loot.

However.. even with those quirks this game is still a B+ in a world filled with C- games (WoW I would rate at a C atm). --SWToR has better combat (no autoattack ftw)
-SWToR has better stories (you can say this and that, but overall the stories are good!)
-SWToR has better crafting (although crew skills do factor in to why higher levels are stuck on the fleet.. since we dont need to actually farm mats with our character)
-SWToR has better mechanics (FP and OPs fights generally feel good)
-SWToR has balanced PvP (you might not agree but it is balanced)
-SWToR provides an overall better casual experience

What SWToR does not provide (and what I know to be the reason many people quit or play it angrily)

- SWToR does not have minigames like Pazaak or swoop racing
- SWToR does not support RP or RP environments (lack of being able to sit or interact with the environment)
- SWToR does not have PvP space combat (This is one is tricky really.. cus its not a standard for MMO's but it is a standard for SW)
- SWToR does not encourage uniqueness infact it punishes customization to the point of limiting it to the bare minimum right down to the character creator
- SWToR has no open world PvP incentive (although the incentive should be to kill whats red.. in this era of MMOs i would have to say that without "objectives" world pvp will not occur


Each of these issues however, are common among most MMOs... I think the game gets Judged because it fails to deliver on so many of these features that players seem to "expect".. but that is simply not fair.

- Character customization is garbage on any game that is on par "mechanically" with SWToR
- (I wont defend the RP environment thing, was going to but it should be in since almost every other game allows you to sit in a friggin chair)
- The space combat on its own is a better minigame than what most other games in its class have.


Maybe I am being just being a little soft on BIOWARE atm, but I really have to say thank you for making the game at least =) I will play it till you turn off the lights, although not as much as I would if it had the features most people want in an MMO (although few MMOs have if any?).

With all due respect, I completely disagree with your assessment of player behaviour. You're explanation is very simplistic at best and you are trying to overgeneralize and categorize a certain behaviour and applying it on a whole population. I'm not sure your assessment of blaming the lost of subs rest solely on the, as you say, "nomadic" people who game hop a lot. The truth of the matter is, there are multiple factors that resulted on the lost of subs for this game. Factors that are problems in game, economic competition, economic trends, the innovation factor, game design problems, etc. To assume that it rest solely on the "nomad" gamer factor is blind and ignorant.

4 of every 5 people who bought this game, "judged it" by taking their money elsewhere. Pretending a game is better than it is, doesn't convince those who know otherwise. Good games sell themselves.

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