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Imperial Intelligence (IA ending spoliers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
Imperial Intelligence (IA ending spoliers)

Temeluchus's Avatar


Temeluchus
10.10.2012 , 03:08 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
Well this was not about Imperial Intelligence having combat trained section (like special forces). I am sure it had this kind of section anyway. This was about drafting agents, spies and techs into front-line infantry. Most of them were trained in intelligence gathering and espionage and not in infantry combat nor had any combat experience.

It is not necessary for the game to specifically state whether it was a temporary or permanent assignment. The common sense tells you that sending (mostly) combat-inexperienced personnel into front-line infantry units means they didn't really value their actual expertise or expected to have any use them in the future. Lack of combat training and experience, front-line infantry assignment and heavy casualties in battle of Corellia would completely decimate the ex-intelligence personnel (and statistically it was a "death sentence" for majority).
Any agent regardless of their specialty will have had combat training, I get your point, but you are making it sound like they are sending out the lambs to slaughter which isn't the case. I'm a former US Marine and all Marines are rifleman first and foremost regardless of MOS, at anytime a Marine can be rotated into a combat element even if he was a cook,paralegal etc. They might not have as much experience as those of us with combat designations but they have the training and have seen guys like this excel and survive in combat.

The Sith probably did send the agents in hoping some would get slaughtered but knowing the Sith philosophy I think it was less about wiping them out and more about culling the weak from the strong for when the new Intelligence is rebuilt.
"Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
10.11.2012 , 10:25 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by maxetius View Post
Not at all. The Dark Council is mostly comprised of either powerful morons or powerhungry egomaniacs. t's no stretch that they would approve or accept the dissolution of Imperial Intelligence. What do they care, except what benefits them personally? Not a SINGLE one of them is what could remotely be considered a [for the empire!] patriot, nor do any of them really give a damn about the Empire as to except how it benefits them personally.

It's why they choose to dissolve imperial intelligence, why so many of their number are slaughtered throughout the story, it's why they generally just sit around plotting to kill each other.


Not that I disagree with the general content of your argument. I just wanted to point this out.
Well I agree with you on notion that Dark Council is made of power hungry egomaniacs but this is actually an argument AGAINST dissolution of Intelligence. The point is that dissolution would not personally or otherwise benefit them. On contrary, it would make them lose personal influence and power. The Intelligence was a Dark Council's tool, their instrument of fear and their eyes and ears. If they thought something isn't going the way they wanted they would replace the leadership and NOT destroy the whole thing.
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
10.11.2012 , 10:27 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Temeluchus View Post
Any agent regardless of their specialty will have had combat training, I get your point, but you are making it sound like they are sending out the lambs to slaughter which isn't the case. I'm a former US Marine and all Marines are rifleman first and foremost regardless of MOS, at anytime a Marine can be rotated into a combat element even if he was a cook,paralegal etc. They might not have as much experience as those of us with combat designations but they have the training and have seen guys like this excel and survive in combat.

The Sith probably did send the agents in hoping some would get slaughtered but knowing the Sith philosophy I think it was less about wiping them out and more about culling the weak from the strong for when the new Intelligence is rebuilt.
Comparing marines to surveillance agents and spies is inappropriate. Marines are a combat unit (as you stated yourself, riflemen first and foremost) while Imperial Intelligence is primary a surveillance and espionage organization.

Edit: Replaced the "absurd" with the "inappropriate" for the sake of nicer discussion.
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

errant_knight's Avatar


errant_knight
10.11.2012 , 10:28 AM | #44
Each one of those egomaniacs would love to control imperial intelligence themselves. Not for the dark council, not for the empire, but for their personal benefit. That's what they're trying to do when they dissolve it. It just doesn't work that well.

Edit: This would be a nicer conversation without unnecessary judgement calls on other people's arguments like 'absurd' and 'ridiculous.' Just make the points and call it a day.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
10.11.2012 , 10:48 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by errant_knight View Post
Each one of those egomaniacs would love to control imperial intelligence themselves. Not for the dark council, not for the empire, but for their personal benefit. That's what they're trying to do when they dissolve it. It just doesn't work that well.
Well that doesn't work at all. That sure wasn't the way to make any control over it. They just lost even the shared control they had.
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

DeltaEkotte's Avatar


DeltaEkotte
10.11.2012 , 10:48 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaisernick View Post
yeah but it wasnt the sith, it was the star cabal acting through the sith
And the fact that they replaced it with a sith version of it.
Imperial General Ekotte, Captin of the Mandalorian Fist; E-Chimaera

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
10.11.2012 , 10:52 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by DeltaEkotte View Post
And the fact that they replaced it with a sith version of it.
This thread has 5 pages and that was discussed in details...
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

errant_knight's Avatar


errant_knight
10.11.2012 , 10:57 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
Well that doesn't work at all. That sure wasn't the way to make any control over it. They just lost even the shared control they had.
That's because most of them lack forsight, focussed as they are on their own power and little else. Not only are they narrow thinkers, but find their own failure inconceivable. If they were to consider that possibility, they'd probably think it an acceptable trade off for weakening a rival's access to information. We see them doing things that are detrimental to the war effort and the empire time and time again.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
10.11.2012 , 11:02 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by errant_knight View Post
That's because most of them lack forsight, focussed as they are on their own power and little else. Not only are they narrow thinkers, but find their own failure inconceivable. If they were to consider that possibility, they'd probably think it an acceptable trade off for weakening a rival's access to information. We see them doing things that are detrimental to the war effort and the empire time and time again.
You still haven't convinced me how exactly would dissolution of Imperial Intelligence benefit them in any way. Both in short and long term they lose a great deal of personal power and influence. Are you implying they are self-destructive or even mentally challenged?
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

Meepbot's Avatar


Meepbot
10.11.2012 , 11:20 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
Don't be ridiculous... Disbanding of Imperial Intelligence does not fall under "day-to-day running". The Imperial Intelligence is what basically keeps the Empire together and is parallel in importance to Imperial Military (which is pretty much the most important element of Empire). If Emperor or DC wouldn't care about that then they wouldn't care about Empire at all.
The emperor has been silent for many years at this point, the dark council has had no contact with him at the time, so they have essentially taken control of the empire. This is the sole reason that the dread masters left the empire. So when the Dark Council saw (thanks to the star cabal) that II was chasing ghosts, that it was not helping the war effort in the slightest, because all their top analysts were focused on said ghosts, that at least one of their agents was capable of challenging a DC member, and that this same agent couldn't be brought under the control of the sith through mind control, they felt threatened, they felt that II was a detriment to their power, so they disbanded it.

Quote: Originally Posted by path-x View Post
on top of that, there is no way they could manipulate the jedi
Because Palpatine didnt manipulate the Jedi at all... eventually defeating them and making the new sith empire.
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