Judging the game too harsh

First off, let me say I have been a huge critic of this game since I first began playing the Beta more than a year ago.

However, lately I have been wondering if maybe a large majority of the community was too harsh in writing off TOR as a failure. Very few times did people point out the good (which regardless of your view everyone can agree the good in this game outweighs the bad by far).

I always said it seemed like two separate dev teams worked on this game.. the first set who worked on the starter planets and fps (Esseles, BT, TaralV, Foundry, MSprison) were doing the job right, and then another team was put help push more content in order to make the holiday 2011 release. It is apparent in many ways, but its most obvious when you notice that story and voice over are way more important early on in the game.. and falls completely flat by the time you entering Ops. For example Esseles, Taral V, and Maelstrom prison have engaging plot lines that freshen up the normal dungeon grind.. sure you can say that it gets old after a while, but it nonetheless makes a FP feel like a FP and not a dungeon. When we get to the Ops level.. and to some degree even PvP.. there is no real engaging plot line.. The storytelling is "meh" because it never achieves the goal of actually immersing you in the story (Should be more dynamic as you go through the op not a before/after thing, in fact more dialog and plot choices should be given that affect the outcome of events, bosses, and even loot.

However.. even with those quirks this game is still a B+ in a world filled with C- games (WoW I would rate at a C atm). --SWToR has better combat (no autoattack ftw)
-SWToR has better stories (you can say this and that, but overall the stories are good!)
-SWToR has better crafting (although crew skills do factor in to why higher levels are stuck on the fleet.. since we dont need to actually farm mats with our character)
-SWToR has better mechanics (FP and OPs fights generally feel good)
-SWToR has balanced PvP (you might not agree but it is balanced)
-SWToR provides an overall better casual experience

What SWToR does not provide (and what I know to be the reason many people quit or play it angrily)

- SWToR does not have minigames like Pazaak or swoop racing
- SWToR does not support RP or RP environments (lack of being able to sit or interact with the environment)
- SWToR does not have PvP space combat (This is one is tricky really.. cus its not a standard for MMO's but it is a standard for SW)
- SWToR does not encourage uniqueness infact it punishes customization to the point of limiting it to the bare minimum right down to the character creator
- SWToR has no open world PvP incentive (although the incentive should be to kill whats red.. in this era of MMOs i would have to say that without "objectives" world pvp will not occur


Each of these issues however, are common among most MMOs... I think the game gets Judged because it fails to deliver on so many of these features that players seem to "expect".. but that is simply not fair.

- Character customization is garbage on any game that is on par "mechanically" with SWToR
- (I wont defend the RP environment thing, was going to but it should be in since almost every other game allows you to sit in a friggin chair)
- The space combat on its own is a better minigame than what most other games in its class have.


Maybe I am being just being a little soft on BIOWARE atm, but I really have to say thank you for making the game at least =) I will play it till you turn off the lights, although not as much as I would if it had the features most people want in an MMO (although few MMOs have if any?).

I never played KOTOR II. But the space minigame in the original KOTOR was just sitting in a cannon and shooting down TIE fighters, Space Invaders style. So compared to that, the space game is far more improved, even if it was considered an addon from the beginning of development (if players didn't know the focus was on the ground game by launch, they hadn't been paying attention or still had wishful thinking). The one thing that did provide some minimal variety to the space combat in KOTOR was how it was a random event trigger that proced when you were flying between planets.

Speaking of sitting in chairs. It seems like a big thing to add it to games whose engines didn't originally support it. STO took a couple of years to implement it and it still doesn't work properly. Character customization could have been more improved though. I'm generally happy with my characters, but again, comparing to lesser budget MMOs like STO, Eve Online, and Fallen Earth, it really is very limited.

I agree with mosty of what you say, except the crafting Its a horrible crafting system IMO, 90% of what you can do is useless junk. I dont like that you cant craft sets.

I liked that about lotro crafting that at a certain level you could craft a decent looking set that would last you from lets say level 30 to 34... This is more like the wow system which I dont like, where your helmet is level 30, the boots 40 etc.

And it costs a fortune!

Thats another thing, Almost everyone I know is broke (yeah of course sdome will relply how awsome they are at making credits and its so easy yea yea) but for normal people that cant play all day long, I think its hard for no reason. When they had that second event, for enrichment, thats what they should have done, let us get "enriched" a bit.

Hopefully with f2p some stuff will be available by other means, for exemple a jetpack or extra storage.

4 of every 5 people who bought this game, "judged it" by taking their money elsewhere. Pretending a game is better than it is, doesn't convince those who know otherwise. Good games sell themselves.

Well, in todays's MMO world each new game gets piled on and then judged too harshly. So, it's inevitable with todays player community I think.

This year is particularly bad with so many new MMOs releasing and each one having high expectations set by the community that it will somehow save them from their MMO anxieties. Now that all the major releases are over, some people are coming back from a break from the game and finding a better appreciation of it (actually, setting aside self-hyped expectations is probably more accurate).

No MMO is everything to everyone, and there is a tendency for unhappy people to fixate on imperfections and then project their disappointments on the community if theycan (and forums are an easy outlet for this). Instead of playing an MMO for what it offers, they demand it be exactly what they want (regardless if their wants conflict with other players). This has become a normal behavior in gaming forums really.

This game has it's flaws and areas for improvement, but then again the very essence of MMOs is that they change, evolve, and add features over time. People wanting the game to be 7 years mature at launch are living in a fantasy world. People wanting the game to be hard edged PvP are missing the fact that it's a PvE game first and PvP is a secondary element (a minigame as far as old school RvR players like me are concerned), etc. etc. etc.

We also have a growing trend of nostalgic impressionists in the community... always wanting to compare this MMO to some other prior MMO or MMO feature. It's become an obsession for some, particularly for this game, by the SWG nostalgics who seem to feel that because the core lore is the same, this game must be the same (even though it is on completely different timelines and core play attributes.

IMO: Play a game for what if offers. Have fun with what it has. If it lacks something significant (like open world RvR) then find a game that fills that need rather then project anger and disappointment on this game. It's OK to play one game for PvP and one (or even more) game for PvE, or outstanding exploring, or lore, etc. etc. It's OK to play more then one MMO at a time, especially since many of them offer flexible access now days.

TL;DR: yeah, players are harsh on all new MMOs. They are also harsh on old MMOs expansions. And each one get beaten to a pulp by the complainers before they move on to beat up the next one.... rinse and repeat... rinse and repeat.

Box sales prove good games sell themselves... at least the point of sale of the box. But even good MMOs don't retain subscriptions anymore.

The player base is nomadic and hops from game to game. Plus, a good number of players are really single player game players who think they buy a box game to beat it and move on to the next one.

That is the point you are ignoring.

I've had a similar observation. The early planets build nicely to Tatooine where a bunch of elements come together nicely. They way the Imperial and Republic quests come together so that both sides are running around doing the Czerka missions in the same space. The fact that there are missions in the main base open areas so there are fights going on as you move around, rather than being sterile and lifeless. The inclusion of an Open PvP zone.

Then as you move on, that all gets left behind. The later planets are much less interesting in how they are structured. The wall get put back up between game elements. Bases are bases with nothing going on. The other side is way over there where you rarely see them.

Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs
4 of every 5 people who bought this game, "judged it" by taking their money elsewhere. Pretending a game is better than it is, doesn't convince those who know otherwise. Good games sell themselves.

I disagree I think people are for the most part "followers"

every single dip in subscribers has coincided with the release of another title

Diablo3
Tera
GW2
WoWpanda


people have become very "fickle" when it comes to game loyalty.. I would argue that its not so much that they think there is greener pastures in another title as much as the idea that "there is a new game out lets go rush and buy it.. play it and then let it collect dust".

also your logic is flawed when you consider non MMO titles that are pushed through constantly and people buy the same game year after year for 60 bucks even if it has less features than its predecessor.. so the whole "people judge with their wallets" is bs.. i'm pretty sure a large number of the sub base for SWToR is inactive ingame but still pays the 15 bucks a month.

I can agree with that, to an extent. But that group of players (the nomads) surely doesn't account for 4 of 5 people. I think you're right that they ARE a factor, but I would be shocked if it were any more than 20%.

"Loyalty" is NOT a given for just buying a game! Just because I buy a bad game (Aion, RIFT), doesn't mean I should remain loyal to it. We've had a crap ton of BAD MMOs released the past few years...the "dip" has more to do with crap games than it does "nomadic" individuals.