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Mace Windu vs Kyle Katarn


Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
10.09.2012 , 12:54 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by revansowns View Post
Mace Windu all day every day. He beat the most powerful Sith Lord in Galactic History, nough said.
Did he really? Read my previous post.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
10.09.2012 , 01:00 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by revansowns View Post
Mace Windu all day every day. He beat the most powerful Sith Lord in Galactic History, nough said.
In saber combat yes, in the fight as a whole no. His lighting was BENDING Mace's saber, and he was losing his grip on it. If he had lost his grip, bye bye lightsaber and he gets fried just like he was only without his hand being cut off.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.09.2012 , 01:08 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
In saber combat yes, in the fight as a whole no. His lighting was BENDING Mace's saber, and he was losing his grip on it. If he had lost his grip, bye bye lightsaber and he gets fried just like he was only without his hand being cut off.
But he didn't lose his grip. So in fighting as a whole, Mace won.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.09.2012 , 01:11 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
I disagree. Palpatine most ikely would have beaten Windu IF Anakin was not going to arrive. Think about it. Palpatine was manipulating Anakin for years to turn him to the Darkside. He knew the Jedi would come for him. He was ready for the fight. Palpatine was playing Windu, buying time for Anakin to arrive. He needed Anakin there to see what was going on and to give him that final push. That is why he played the weakend old man just as Anakin was rushing to his office.

Seriously think about it. Palpatine was doing fine against Windu, then suddenly he is on the ground begging for his life seconds before Anakin shows up. He then plays on Annie's emotions by talking about saving Padme as Windu tries to convince him that Palpatine has to die. It was a setup to push Anakin to the Darkside entirely. Windu was doomed from the start. Palpatine suckered him in. Basically, Windu got got.
That's a very good theory. But a theory isn't fact.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.09.2012 , 01:34 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
I disagree. Palpatine most ikely would have beaten Windu IF Anakin was not going to arrive. Think about it. Palpatine was manipulating Anakin for years to turn him to the Darkside. He knew the Jedi would come for him. He was ready for the fight. Palpatine was playing Windu, buying time for Anakin to arrive. He needed Anakin there to see what was going on and to give him that final push. That is why he played the weakend old man just as Anakin was rushing to his office.

Seriously think about it. Palpatine was doing fine against Windu, then suddenly he is on the ground begging for his life seconds before Anakin shows up. He then plays on Annie's emotions by talking about saving Padme as Windu tries to convince him that Palpatine has to die. It was a setup to push Anakin to the Darkside entirely. Windu was doomed from the start. Palpatine suckered him in. Basically, Windu got got.
This is partially correct. Yes Windu got played, but GL has stated that Windu won the Lightsaber duel. Which means that Windu is a better duelist than Sidious. Now if Sidious did use his full power, Windu wouldn't have a chance.

Simplified:
Windu > Sidious - Lightsaber
Sidious > Windu - Force Power

It's only partly correct. If you want me to go in-depth over it, say so.
Added Chapters 39 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Ismercu's Avatar


Ismercu
10.09.2012 , 01:47 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
I disagree. Palpatine most ikely would have beaten Windu IF Anakin was not going to arrive. Think about it. Palpatine was manipulating Anakin for years to turn him to the Darkside. He knew the Jedi would come for him. He was ready for the fight. Palpatine was playing Windu, buying time for Anakin to arrive. He needed Anakin there to see what was going on and to give him that final push. That is why he played the weakend old man just as Anakin was rushing to his office.

Seriously think about it. Palpatine was doing fine against Windu, then suddenly he is on the ground begging for his life seconds before Anakin shows up. He then plays on Annie's emotions by talking about saving Padme as Windu tries to convince him that Palpatine has to die. It was a setup to push Anakin to the Darkside entirely. Windu was doomed from the start. Palpatine suckered him in. Basically, Windu got got.
This is man speaks the truth.

Kilikaa's Avatar


Kilikaa
10.09.2012 , 02:57 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
This is partially correct. Yes Windu got played, but GL has stated that Windu won the Lightsaber duel. Which means that Windu is a better duelist than Sidious. Now if Sidious did use his full power, Windu wouldn't have a chance.

Simplified:
Windu > Sidious - Lightsaber
Sidious > Windu - Force Power

It's only partly correct. If you want me to go in-depth over it, say so.
That's just it. he lost the saber part of the fight. But since he needed Anakin present he did not use his full Force power. Anakin had to be given that final shove to the Darkside. Palpatine could not give that shove if he went all apes#$@ crazy with his powers. Look how insane he was fighting Yoda in the Senate chamber. The man was clearly gone mentally lol.

I agree Windu won the saber fight, but he was sucked into a trap by Palpy, as was Anakin. If Annie wasn't on Coruscant at the time I think Palpy would have gone into full Force power mode, probably destroying his office with Windu.

We can go into more depth on this, I would welcome that. It would make for a good discussion. But is it possible to have that on the forums? lol

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.09.2012 , 02:59 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
This is partially correct. Yes Windu got played, but GL has stated that Windu won the Lightsaber duel. Which means that Windu is a better duelist than Sidious. Now if Sidious did use his full power, Windu wouldn't have a chance.

Simplified:
Windu > Sidious - Lightsaber
Sidious > Windu - Force Power

It's only partly correct. If you want me to go in-depth over it, say so.
I just realized something.

1. We know that Mace is a better duelist then Sidious.
2. We know that Qui-gon, Dooku, and Yoda where all equals in lightsaber combat with Mace at one time.

If this is so, I guess Sidious isn't so special with a lightsaber (obviously he makes up with this in force beastliness). Perhaps I'm thinking through this incorrectly, but does this mean that Dooku is a better duelist then Sidious? That just seems crazy to me.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.09.2012 , 03:13 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
I just realized something.

1. We know that Mace is a better duelist then Sidious.
2. We know that Qui-gon, Dooku, and Yoda where all equals in lightsaber combat with Mace at one time.

If this is so, I guess Sidious isn't so special with a lightsaber (obviously he makes up with this in force beastliness). Perhaps I'm thinking through this incorrectly, but does this mean that Dooku is a better duelist then Sidious? That just seems crazy to me.
Actually no. Mace Windu beat Sidious through the use of the Vaapad form (created by Windu himself). Vaapad acts as a sort of siphon of the Dark Side. If his opponents use the Dark Side, the form draws that Darkness into Mace Windu, which he uses to enhance his dueling and Force skills. Mace Windu was very close to falling to the Dark Side in his duel with Sidious.

Sidious is a master of the seven Lightsaber forms and could wield them with either hand, giving him the element of surprise in a duel. Seeing a duelist switch hands mid-duel can throw off many duelists. He was a very capable duelist, but he really specializes in Force power.

As great a duelist as Dooku and Qui-Gon are, they aren't on the same level as Sidious. And because they don't have Vaapad, they wouldn't be able to beat Sidious. Very few duelists can beat him. We have seen him beat Yoda and Luke in a duel. Granted Luke wasn't in his prime, but it is still an amazing feat.
Added Chapters 39 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.09.2012 , 03:17 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Kilikaa View Post
That's just it. he lost the saber part of the fight. But since he needed Anakin present he did not use his full Force power. Anakin had to be given that final shove to the Darkside. Palpatine could not give that shove if he went all apes#$@ crazy with his powers. Look how insane he was fighting Yoda in the Senate chamber. The man was clearly gone mentally lol.

I agree Windu won the saber fight, but he was sucked into a trap by Palpy, as was Anakin. If Annie wasn't on Coruscant at the time I think Palpy would have gone into full Force power mode, probably destroying his office with Windu.

We can go into more depth on this, I would welcome that. It would make for a good discussion. But is it possible to have that on the forums? lol
You are correct that Mace Windu was played. The duel was one by Windu, strictly from a Lightsaber perspective. Sidious believed that he could hold Mace off until Anakin arrived. Which he did, but not in the best way. By the time Anakin arrived, Sidious was about to be cut down. Perfect timing? Maybe. Perhaps Sidious felt Anakin's presence approaching and threw the duel. A good assumption, but ruled out by GL.

Anyway. Had Sidious fought Windu like he did Yoda, then he would have won. Mace would have put up a better fight though. Thanks to Vaapad of course.

I love a good debate, but we seem to have similar views of this so there is no point lol.
Added Chapters 39 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus