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Imperial Intelligence (IA ending spoliers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
Imperial Intelligence (IA ending spoliers)

errant_knight's Avatar


errant_knight
10.07.2012 , 05:47 PM | #31
Besides the fact that it's science fiction/fantasy. Imperial intelligence can do things that the KGB could only dream of.

Mutive's Avatar


Mutive
10.08.2012 , 05:22 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
The information has a weight and reliability attached to it. To every intelligence there is an enemy counter-intelligence which is trying to confuse with false information and is constantly manipulating the information flow anyway (you don't need Star Cabal for that). If you get a spam email from John Doe telling you that your bank account was hacked and that you need to provide him with your account password you probably won't do it...

.
I thought the point of having all these high ranking members of the Star Cabal was so that the email wasn't spam from John Doe.

When you're getting crucial intelligence from Minder 17 or the second ranking person in the SIS (both of which positions Hunter held), or the an important crime lord (Nok Drayden) or a high ranking exec in Czerka well...it's not exactly spam.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
10.08.2012 , 10:54 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Kyriosgundam View Post
As to the disbanding of Imperial Intelligence whos to say that it isnt remade as a compeletely different Organization or split into multiple organizations its happened before (the remaking of the NKVD into the KGB, thenbeing split into the FSB and RVS).
Who is to say? Perhaps you didn't pay attention when you played the game. Lord Razer informed the Cipher 9 of Dark Council's decision to fully dissolve the Imperial Intelligence and that the personnel will be reassigned to combat units. (Click here to refresh your memory)

(This is also a reply to Temeluchus) I have never argued that the reorganization and name change was not common in history because it was quite common among the agencies. I wouldn't mind reorganization / name change in SWTOR (but then again that is not what Star Cabal wanted). I was arguing about the stupidity of the completed dissolution as it is done in SWTOR. To break down the priceless infrastructure and network of spies and reassign expert personnel and agents to combat units, well that is beyond ludicruos. When I was playing this particular part and when Sith said the Imperial Intelligence is dissolved I was like "You can't be serious..." but when he said the agents are to be reassigned to combat units I started laughing because that was the single most dumb thing I have seen in SWTOR so far.
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

Temeluchus's Avatar


Temeluchus
10.08.2012 , 02:33 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
Who is to say? Perhaps you didn't pay attention when you played the game. Lord Razer informed the Cipher 9 of Dark Council's decision to fully dissolve the Imperial Intelligence and that the personnel will be reassigned to combat units. (Click here to refresh your memory)

(This is also a reply to Temeluchus) I have never argued that the reorganization and name change was not common in history because it was quite common among the agencies. I wouldn't mind reorganization / name change in SWTOR (but then again that is not what Star Cabal wanted). I was arguing about the stupidity of the completed dissolution as it is done in SWTOR. To break down the priceless infrastructure and network of spies and reassign expert personnel and agents to combat units, well that is beyond ludicruos. When I was playing this particular part and when Sith said the Imperial Intelligence is dissolved I was like "You can't be serious..." but when he said the agents are to be reassigned to combat units I started laughing because that was the single most dumb thing I have seen in SWTOR so far.
I'll have to refresh my memory on the IA storyline since it has been a bit since leveling my Op and Sniper but isn't the combat unit reassignment considered temporary?

I could have sworn Imperial intelligence was in the process of being reconstituted into a new Intelligence arm, this time under direct control of the Sith, that the IA would be put in charge of. Perhaps that was wishful thinking on my part and possibly some of my own personal canon and thoughts about future direction of the story.

I agree with you that the dissolution was idiotic just disagree with you that it couldn't be believably done in the way it was written
"Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night.

Mercurial_Harpy's Avatar


Mercurial_Harpy
10.08.2012 , 10:56 PM | #35
So, the following information may be dependent on which IA ending you got. As such, I am placing some of the following behind spoiler tags.

Spoiler

Based on that conversation, the establishment of a new intelligence organization, presumably "Sith Intelligence," is heavily implied. Since both sides are now officially at war, the Sith has lost over 1/2 their Dark Council, the Emperor isn't making any press appearances, and the Empire pretty much got their @ss handed to them due to their own ineptitude, even if the Sith wasn't planning on having a successor organization to IA, they aren't going to have much choice now if they are serious about winning.

Sure, it's possible that they will try and muddle along, using the military and freelancers for their covert needs. Oh wait, yeah this is the incredibly paranoid, xenophobic Sith we're talking about, right?

Spoiler


As disorganized and self-destructive as the Sith are, I would find it very hard to believe that Intelligence of any kind would just go away. More likely there will be an organization where the Minister is a Sith, or reports directly to and take orders from Darth so-and-so Scary-Pants. Since we have yet to see how the Dark Council will replace the recently deceased, it's logical that someone we have yet to meet will take the reigns and try and rebuild. That will be a cut scene I look forward to.

Are there breaks in logic in the IA story? Sure. Is there a ton of stuff we as "The Agent formerly known as Cipher 9" don't know? You betcha. Do any of us really know what will happen in Chapter 4? Hell, I doubt Bioware even knows at this point; but they have promised that the story will continue. As a whole. I didn't find the story arcs that unbelievable. But that was kind of the point of the story. You never know what is real, or who is really on your side. More often than not, it's your ally stabbing you in the back rather than your target. That's the life of a spy. *shrug*

* * *
~The Argost Legacy~

~Jedi Covenant~

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
10.09.2012 , 11:19 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Temeluchus View Post
but isn't the combat unit reassignment considered temporary?
The game doesn't state so we are safe to assume it is permanent. Anyway assigning valuable agents to front-line units is pretty much sending them to their deaths. Once you break down the operations and call off your agents the established spy network is lost for good. This can pretty much tell you that the reorganization was not what was going to happen.

Quote: Originally Posted by Mercurial_Harpy View Post
Based on that conversation, the establishment of a new intelligence organization, presumably "Sith Intelligence," is heavily implied.
I just watched Youtube videos of all 3 possible choices. In all 3 instances the Minister specifically tells you that the Imperial Intelligence will not be rebuild. In both light side options the exact quote is "The Imperial Intelligence is not being rebuilt" while in dark side option it is "The Imperial Intelligence will not be rebuilt". However in dark side option he mentions a possible "Sith Intelligence". So again, it wasn't a reorganization but a start-up from a scratch (read the upper reply).

So now I can safely restate my main argument in this thread. It wasn't a reorganization but a complete dissolution of Imperial Intelligence with most of its personnel wasted and infrastructure destroyed. This is utterly ridiculous and stupid and there is no way Dark Council would approve that (reorganization and change of leadership yes, but NOT this).
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

Bleeters's Avatar


Bleeters
10.09.2012 , 02:55 PM | #37
The Dark Council aren't exactly immune to being short sighted morons.

Temeluchus's Avatar


Temeluchus
10.09.2012 , 05:00 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Path-x View Post
The game doesn't state so we are safe to assume it is permanent. Anyway assigning valuable agents to front-line units is pretty much sending them to their deaths. Once you break down the operations and call off your agents the established spy network is lost for good. This can pretty much tell you that the reorganization was not what was going to happen.



I just watched Youtube videos of all 3 possible choices. In all 3 instances the Minister specifically tells you that the Imperial Intelligence will not be rebuild. In both light side options the exact quote is "The Imperial Intelligence is not being rebuilt" while in dark side option it is "The Imperial Intelligence will not be rebuilt". However in dark side option he mentions a possible "Sith Intelligence". So again, it wasn't a reorganization but a start-up from a scratch (read the upper reply).

So now I can safely restate my main argument in this thread. It wasn't a reorganization but a complete dissolution of Imperial Intelligence with most of its personnel wasted and infrastructure destroyed. This is utterly ridiculous and stupid and there is no way Dark Council would approve that (reorganization and change of leadership yes, but NOT this).
Imperial Intelligence as we knew it is not being rebuilt, but the DS and "Batman" ending both seem to indicate a new Intelligence is coming into being with the DS IA being in charge of it.

The game may not say that the combat re-assignment i's not temporary, but it doesn't say that it is permanent either. You know what they say about assuming. If you choose to perceive it as permanent, well that's up to you.

Sending Intelligence agents in combat situations isn't a death sentence nor is it unheard of, all major Intelligence agencies have paramilitary units that operate in wartime conditions and NOCs and other field agents aren't exactly sitting in cushy offices, eating ice cream and playing hopscotch.
"Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night.

Path-x's Avatar


Path-x
10.10.2012 , 10:56 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Temeluchus View Post
The game may not say that the combat re-assignment i's not temporary, but it doesn't say that it is permanent either. You know what they say about assuming. If you choose to perceive it as permanent, well that's up to you.

Sending Intelligence agents in combat situations isn't a death sentence nor is it unheard of, all major Intelligence agencies have paramilitary units that operate in wartime conditions and NOCs and other field agents aren't exactly sitting in cushy offices, eating ice cream and playing hopscotch.
Well this was not about Imperial Intelligence having combat trained section (like special forces). I am sure it had this kind of section anyway. This was about drafting agents, spies and techs into front-line infantry. Most of them were trained in intelligence gathering and espionage and not in infantry combat nor had any combat experience.

It is not necessary for the game to specifically state whether it was a temporary or permanent assignment. The common sense tells you that sending (mostly) combat-inexperienced personnel into front-line infantry units means they didn't really value their actual expertise or expected to have any use them in the future. Lack of combat training and experience, front-line infantry assignment and heavy casualties in battle of Corellia would completely decimate the ex-intelligence personnel (and statistically it was a "death sentence" for majority).
Jedi: You won the day, Sith. So, kill me if you must.
Warrior: I must.

maxetius's Avatar


maxetius
10.10.2012 , 12:30 PM | #40
Quote:
This is utterly ridiculous and stupid and there is no way Dark Council would approve that.
Not at all. The Dark Council is mostly comprised of either powerful morons or powerhungry egomaniacs. t's no stretch that they would approve or accept the dissolution of Imperial Intelligence. What do they care, except what benefits them personally? Not a SINGLE one of them is what could remotely be considered a [for the empire!] patriot, nor do any of them really give a damn about the Empire as to except how it benefits them personally.

It's why they choose to dissolve imperial intelligence, why so many of their number are slaughtered throughout the story, it's why they generally just sit around plotting to kill each other.


Not that I disagree with the general content of your argument. I just wanted to point this out.