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Five steps to make PvP more enjoyable and rewarding

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Five steps to make PvP more enjoyable and rewarding

Yeochins's Avatar


Yeochins
10.08.2012 , 06:58 PM | #21
All I heard is a bunch of suggestions that don't address the fundamental problems:
  1. This is an MMO Based on gear progression
  2. This is an MMO that is dying because of lack of progression when you finally max-out
  3. This is an MMO where the PvP consists of 4 maps played out to death over its 10 month lifetime.

The issue with recruit is not the damage but survivability (see points 1 and 2), and evidence suggesting that recruits can deal damage if they save commendations for 1-3 BM/WH pieces as soon as they hit 50.


The issue with survivability is really simple to solve. 95% of people in recruit gear:
  1. Dont have or use warzone medpacks
  2. Dont have or use warzone adrenals

The latter providing damage mitigation and the former healing a decent chunk of health. Heck, 95% of Battlemaster geared players don't use them either. The only population of people who are most likely to use warzone consumables are the fully decked out war-hero players. They have the excess commendations to spend, or aren't spending tons of credits on:
  • Augmentation Kits
  • Augments
  • PvE 26 and 27 armorings
  • Ripping out mods


That is where the significant gap is. New players aren't awarded enough credits or commendations to support using warzone consumables which heals my characters for 6K health, or a 15% damage reduction which is greater than the difference in damage reduction between WH and recruit gear.

The proposal is simple, and will kill multiple birds with one stone:

The loosing team in a Warzone match is awarded:
  • 80 Warzone commendations (+ vote earned commendations)
  • 10 Warzone medpacks (you can use at most 10 in a 15 minute match)
  • 5 Warzone Adrenals (you can use at most 5 in a 15 minute match)

This will:
  1. Lower the gap between recruit and WH in a way that wont break the lifeline that the TOR-tanic is clinging to (gear progression)
  2. Reduce the number of warzone quitters because they wont feel like they're receiving a negative investment on their consumables

This proposal does not solve the problem. But merely mitigate it without sinking the TOR-tanic in one fell swoop.

Crixa's Avatar


Crixa
10.08.2012 , 09:28 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Yeochins View Post
All I heard is a bunch of suggestions that don't address the fundamental problems:
  1. This is an MMO Based on gear progression
  2. This is an MMO that is dying because of lack of progression when you finally max-out
  3. This is an MMO where the PvP consists of 4 maps played out to death over its 10 month lifetime.

The issue with recruit is not the damage but survivability (see points 1 and 2), and evidence suggesting that recruits can deal damage if they save commendations for 1-3 BM/WH pieces as soon as they hit 50.


The issue with survivability is really simple to solve. 95% of people in recruit gear:
  1. Dont have or use warzone medpacks
  2. Dont have or use warzone adrenals

The latter providing damage mitigation and the former healing a decent chunk of health. Heck, 95% of Battlemaster geared players don't use them either. The only population of people who are most likely to use warzone consumables are the fully decked out war-hero players. They have the excess commendations to spend, or aren't spending tons of credits on:
  • Augmentation Kits
  • Augments
  • PvE 26 and 27 armorings
  • Ripping out mods


That is where the significant gap is. New players aren't awarded enough credits or commendations to support using warzone consumables which heals my characters for 6K health, or a 15% damage reduction which is greater than the difference in damage reduction between WH and recruit gear.

The proposal is simple, and will kill multiple birds with one stone:

The loosing team in a Warzone match is awarded:
  • 80 Warzone commendations (+ vote earned commendations)
  • 10 Warzone medpacks (you can use at most 10 in a 15 minute match)
  • 5 Warzone Adrenals (you can use at most 5 in a 15 minute match)

This will:
  1. Lower the gap between recruit and WH in a way that wont break the lifeline that the TOR-tanic is clinging to (gear progression)
  2. Reduce the number of warzone quitters because they wont feel like they're receiving a negative investment on their consumables

This proposal does not solve the problem. But merely mitigate it without sinking the TOR-tanic in one fell swoop.
Interesting take on the balancing issues. Never really considered the consumable angle before but you're right. Ppl who are still gearing up aren't spending comms on these, adding an additional layer of separation between the haves and the have-nots.

kweassa's Avatar


kweassa
10.08.2012 , 10:27 PM | #23
Considering the fact a hefty chunk of the "problems" concerning PvP is also with the players themselves, it is surprising to see none of the solutions mention the prime rule of PvP - "Stop whining. Learn to play."

Yes, SWTOR PvP has problems -- but then again so does every game out there to varying degrees. Besides, the largest, most serious problems that does not concern the player base is something which would be solved in due time -- ie; new maps, scenario PvPs, etc.. Bugs are also grinded out in time, although ironically (usually being low on the priority list) petty bugs tend to persist a long time -- which is also a common thing to see in many games.

Other than this, every thing else these people bring up in this forum is whine upon whine upon whine upon whine, about things and situations which should be rectified by the player themselves.


You could give them the most perfect PvP game, and people will still whine if they lose.
Ofcourse, it's never their own fault.
It's always someone else's, some other classes', some stupid system's, the game's fault.

With this kind of mindset, there ain't no way PvP gets any better. Anything that brings people to the painful realization to the fact that most of common players are simply scrubs, and they are part of those scrubs as well, they will simply choose to deny it and find some excuse to explain why the game is faulty.

These types of people, IMO, should not be PvPing in the first place. It's the horde of those people that started mouthing off the negative hype -- which ultimately hurt the game and its community.
"90% of PvP complaints come from people that are thoroughly unqualified to comment about anything in the first place. Stop assuming that you are a good player, then an answer will come; why you die so often, why you are CCd so often, and why you complain about healers so often - You're simply a bad player. Harsh truth."

BlazingShadow's Avatar


BlazingShadow
10.08.2012 , 11:42 PM | #24
Better idea: NORMALIZE ALL HEALTH AND DAMAGE STATS ACROSS THE BOARD WHEN ENTERING A WARZONE OR ENGAGING A PLAYER IN WORLD COMBAT, MAKING THEM IMMUNE/INVISIBLE TO NPCs

Let the playing field BE EVEN WOOO!!!! Who's with meh!?!?? Oh, right... you people... want a "reason" to bash heads other than the sheer entertainment value -_-

Yeochins's Avatar


Yeochins
10.09.2012 , 12:10 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by BlazingShadow View Post
Better idea: NORMALIZE ALL HEALTH AND DAMAGE STATS ACROSS THE BOARD WHEN ENTERING A WARZONE OR ENGAGING A PLAYER IN WORLD COMBAT, MAKING THEM IMMUNE/INVISIBLE TO NPCs

Let the playing field BE EVEN WOOO!!!! Who's with meh!?!?? Oh, right... you people... want a "reason" to bash heads other than the sheer entertainment value -_-
Doesn't work that way anymore. You're living in 2012 soon to be 2013, not 1996-2004.

The genre that was all about this stuff is now about unlocks, and achievements. From the small social games you play on your smart-phone, to the consoles and PC. Counterstrike with all its glory has nothing in terms of popularity in comparison to that poor-excuse for a FPS Call of Duty.

Once you accept that progression will always define the modern game you can then focus on how you mitigate progression, not remove it (because no EA title will ever do that). Rewarding consumables on loss is a huge step towards mitigating progression onboard the TOR-tanic.

All these bolster-systems people are asking for, or the free Battlemaster handouts people are hoping for are not going to solve the huge discrepancy of Warzone consumables. The Warzone medpack and adrenal give an enormous advantage to to the fully WH-geared players. The seismic grenades are the cherry and icing on top. The advantage they give is bigger than the gear gap between an un-optimized WH character and a recruit.

Only the baddies of PvP haven't realized this yet. Anyone whose decent generally doesn't care to set the record straight with most of these forum whiners because most of the people they face are people who use Warzone consumables..If you PUG regular warzones, it is easy to tell based off of HP, and how they react to damage within minutes of the game, whether or not they're an easy kill because they don't have or won't use Warzone consumables.

Glower's Avatar


Glower
10.09.2012 , 12:28 AM | #26
I do not know when Bioware will start to do something, but they could do at least that:

Quote:
4) Remove inventory caps on WZ comms limits.
/signed
SWTOR goes F2P: http://i.imgur.com/1962X.jpg
A: "They’d love to do that at some point, but technically very challenging and unlikely to happen in the near future." (c)
PvP FAQ, A: "We have no plans at this time" (c)

Monterone's Avatar


Monterone
10.09.2012 , 09:55 AM | #27
I fully agree with you guys on the WZ adrenals and medpacs making an ENORMOUS difference... further illustrating that endless grind only makes things worse and widens the gap.

Personally, having been outfitting 4 different characters into WH gear, I haven't seen a consumable on a 50 in a LONG time... and I miss them. Sure I get some on my lowbie alts and sometimes I mail them over, but it will still be a long time before I can get any on my mains. And I agree that is just poor design and very well points out the faults in the design.
Sominette . Saminette
Pot5 > Harbinger

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
10.09.2012 , 10:21 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Gorgonzye View Post
Agreed, it is too easy to get Battlemaster gear even if you only do your dailies. The moment you remove the reward for participation is the moment you lose 99% of the PvP players, at which point we will have to constantly see "Que up for WZ" in the fleet, and thread whining about how few people are actually playing in the warzones.
lol 99%.

99%....

Show me how you came up with that number.

Simbr's Avatar


Simbr
10.09.2012 , 10:30 AM | #29
Just remove expertise, PvP'rs don't need it, PvE'rs / casual PvP'rs don't want it and RP'rs can't comprehend it.

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
10.09.2012 , 10:32 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Simbr View Post
Just remove expertise, PvP'rs don't need it, PvE'rs / casual PvP'rs don't want it and RP'rs can't comprehend it.
Simple and straight to the point. I like this post a lot. Sums up exactly what is the problem.