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[Bug?] The Withiring Horor 16 Man HM

Grimsblood's Avatar


Grimsblood
09.28.2012 , 06:43 AM | #1
Last night we ran 16 man HM TFB. I noticed something odd in a number of the pulls (caused us confusion and a couple wipes). The way I understand the mechanic in question is as follows:

Tank 1 tanks boss.
Tank 1 gets stacking debuff.
Jealous Males spawns.
rDPS stands in Red Pool.
Tank 2 tanks Boss.
Tank 1 tanks Jealous male.
rDPS has adds attracted to him.

More or less, my understanding is that the Jealous make attacking the tank with the stacking debuff either A) Causes the adds to spawn or B) Has his debuff fall off causing the adds to spawn.


What happened to us was the adds were spawning before the Red Pool came out AND the before the Jealous Male spawned. In other words it went like this:

Adds
Red Pool
Jealous Male


Side note, it seemed like we had too much dps as well. About the time the 3rd pool would spawn, we had the soft enrage from the boss. We had to hold back quite a bit of dps (I went from a 1750 sustained to a 1400). Is it possible some of the mechanic triggers are time based AND heath based (Like Firebrand and Stormcaller)?
DPS is science. Healing is art. Tanking is strategy.
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Saphyria - Level 55 Sniper - Fenrîr - Level 55 Gunslinger

tahoeWolverine's Avatar


tahoeWolverine
09.28.2012 , 09:40 AM | #2
The first part is not a bug, you need to rethink your strategy. I will clarify that the tank with the debuff does spawn babies when his stack falls off. Our strategy involves being over cautious with the babies (making sure that they get into the pool) and ignore the male for the most part. The only thing with the male is that he needs to be away from the babies or he will enrage/frenzy. That's all I will say for now, good luck!

As far as time/health mechanics, the male generally spawns after a given main boss burrow. We have never seen the male and pool spawn at different times though...
DrGordon - Chosen - Prophecy of the Five

alifaraaz's Avatar


alifaraaz
09.28.2012 , 10:10 AM | #3
Were your dps pulling aggro for even a second? Did you check your logs? As far as I'm aware, the attack with puts incubation stacks (dunno what its called) can be dodged. So either dodging it or someone pulling aggro can cause a stack to not go on the tank, leading to the rest of the stacks falling off sooner than intended and spawning the adds early.

I don't know if this is what's happening, but worth investigating.
Kazar - Powertech, [Tomb of Freedom Nadd EU]

Grimsblood's Avatar


Grimsblood
09.28.2012 , 06:55 PM | #4
Just to clarify, we did clear the boss. Our end result was slowing the dps a bit and everything lined up.

Quote: Originally Posted by tahoeWolverine View Post
The first part is not a bug, you need to rethink your strategy. I will clarify that the tank with the debuff does spawn babies when his stack falls off. Our strategy involves being over cautious with the babies (making sure that they get into the pool) and ignore the male for the most part. The only thing with the male is that he needs to be away from the babies or he will enrage/frenzy. That's all I will say for now, good luck!

As far as time/health mechanics, the male generally spawns after a given main boss burrow. We have never seen the male and pool spawn at different times though...
The strat that you allude to is the same thing we are doing besides we control the Jealous Male. The problem is the "babies", Jealous Male and Red Pool are not spawning at the same time. My concern is that the triggers for the mechanics are all different which creates a situation like a second DD for Firebrand and Stormcaller. I am just wondering if it "working as intended" or not tested well enough with top end characters.

Quote: Originally Posted by alifaraaz View Post
Were your dps pulling aggro for even a second? Did you check your logs? As far as I'm aware, the attack with puts incubation stacks (dunno what its called) can be dodged. So either dodging it or someone pulling aggro can cause a stack to not go on the tank, leading to the rest of the stacks falling off sooner than intended and spawning the adds early.

I don't know if this is what's happening, but worth investigating.
No, the only thing I can think of is maybe a stack was dodge causing it to fall off sooner then needed. However, if that is the case, that should NOT be "working as intended".

If it is as intended then we need to find out what the trigger is for the Red Pool (Time/Healh/Debuff).

If the Red Pool is based off of time like the Jealous Male AND the incubation stacks can be avoided. You will always have a [Insert tanks Defense change] That you will have adds running around for a while.

If the Red Pool is based off of health then you can control dps to force it's spawn. However, you will always have that chance for the "babies" to spawn early (A little more control here but not much).

If the Red Pool is based off of the Debuff, the mechanic is broken due to lack of control.

Unless the lack of control is intended for a difficulty modifier (which I do not mind) this is a Bug.

Blev's Avatar


Blev
10.01.2012 , 09:43 AM | #5
You have a tank die? That will spawn them early as well.

We ran into a couple bugs with the Yellow Circle debuff not appearing in the UI and the boss just deciding to randomly 1 shot the tanks (note this was not the 10 stack incubation thing).
Blev - Jedi Guardian | Caladium - Sith Sorcerer | Ranwyn - Commando
Sarinn - Scoundrel | Serwyn - Jedi Sentinel | Varlene - Jedi Shadow

KarethRiker's Avatar


KarethRiker
10.01.2012 , 10:53 AM | #6
We had this problem as well on 8 man and believe it is an aggro mechanic. Any time a dps would pull and get hit the adds would spawn early before a red pool and the jealous male. When our tanks had clean swaps we had no problems.
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CitizenFry's Avatar


CitizenFry
10.01.2012 , 11:13 AM | #7
(my experience is one clear of this fight on 8 man hard mode)

According to the tooltip on the debuff, babies will spawn when the Incubation debuff falls off OR when the Incubation debuff gets to ten stacks. If a DPS pulls aggro at an inconvenient time and causes the boss to skip an attack on the tank, that could be long enough for the Incubation debuff to drop off and spawn babies.

Note that whenever the Incubation debuff falls off, another debuff is applied to the tank that will cause an instagib if a new stack of Incubation is applied to the tank. This means that tank #2 really needs to pay attention, because if tank #1 gets a lucky (unlucky?) string of dodges, or takes too long to catch up to the boss after a move, or a DPS pulls, tank #1 will explode when the boss resumes attacking.

I don't know yet what causes the red pheromone pools to spawn. My guess would be a timer, but it could be health or boss moves or something else.
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Pcolapat's Avatar


Pcolapat
10.03.2012 , 02:46 AM | #8
I thought it was a bug at first too, but it is not. tank just needs to hold aggro. if someone in the raid takes aggro and gets a stack then the adds spawn prematurely and kill the tank. Helps if dps drops threat after the first borrow. After the first jealous male phase the tanks should be well ahead on threat and it isn't an issue. Make sure your guarding your best DPSers.
Anything that is done repetitively can be done by a computer. That is why right brained people will eventually rule the world.

Grimsblood's Avatar


Grimsblood
10.08.2012 , 09:40 AM | #9
A little late in my response here. We didn't have dps pulling threat at the time. I have been in groups where this happens and usually the dps that pulled threat will have 1 stack and then it falls off before the tanks and you get one add. We had both tanks up and all the adds out. Idk, maybe it could be something in the exact triggers of the boss's ability for the eggs? In other words, the boss does the incubation thing every x% in health and we just pushed it far enough to where we beat the time for the Jealous male causing the adds to be there for a bit without them?