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Which tank is the less hectic to tank with

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Which tank is the less hectic to tank with

Letsjet's Avatar


Letsjet
10.05.2012 , 10:47 PM | #1
I've got an a'sin tank and I find him a bit hectic to tank with - just for instance, I have to keep a short buff up all the time while I'm doing everything else. I've tanked in lots of mmo'sfor about 13 years so I do have some exp.

For those of you who have a PT/Vanguardand a Jugg/Guard, which of those two are easier to tank with at least when gearing up at 50? I have a Vanguard, PT, and a Jugg in the low 30's and I'd like some input on which one would be a little less frenetic come 50.
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Pancakes's Avatar


Pancakes
10.05.2012 , 11:24 PM | #2
asn tanks are very easy to tank with once you get good gear (rakata level i believe). If you want easy tanking off the bat just roll PT but know your room for improving is very limited.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
10.06.2012 , 01:19 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Letsjet View Post
For those of you who have a PT/Vanguardand a Jugg/Guard, which of those two are easier to tank with at least when gearing up at 50?
By far, the least frenetic tank is the PT/VG. The only thing you have to pat attention to, at all, is just keeping your ammo high. Guardian/Jugg tanks have to deal with watching their resource bar like a hawk and learning to spend and use abilities as the absolutely proper time; it is *really* easy to completely screw up your resource maintenance by using one attack when you should have used another. Because of this, they are the most frenetic to learn, but, once you've mastered that aspect, they're relatively easy. Shad/Sins have to constantly watch their buffs and know a crapton about specific fight mechanics, movement, and ability timing. The skill threshold to be a good Shad/Sin is lower than that of a Jugg/Guard (though it's still more hectic even after you have learned it because it's so proc and RNG reliant), but it takes more to be a great Shad/Sin than it does to be a great Jugg/Guard (the difference between good and great is largely determined by how effectively you can use and abuse your CDs and Shad/Sins just require you know more and use them more often).

So, to answer you succinctly, PT/VGs are, regardless of what level you're attempting to perform at, the most simple and least hectic tank. At moderate performance levels, where all of the tanks perform roughly identically, the Guard/Jugg is the most hectic, followed by the Shad/Sin. At top tier performance levels, where Shad/Sins beat out Guard/Juggs which beat out PT/VGs, Shad/Sins are the most hectic and involved and Guard/Juggs are roughly the average between Shad/Sins and the painfully simply PT/VGs.
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Hatstandard's Avatar


Hatstandard
10.06.2012 , 01:58 AM | #4
Let's not lie to the man about "top tier performance levels"

any of the tanks are virtually identical at the highest levels in terms of survivability. What will stand out to your buddies during TFB HM or something is if you make a mistake. PT are the easiest to avoid mistakes but with a little practice the other tanks aren't that bad. Jug is the worst at "top tier performance levels" because it receives the most micro for very minimal mitigation returns and shockling bad threat generation

. Still if you are experienced and competent enough to tank ofor your raid on one class you could be competent enough to do it on another class. You will probably wipe your squad half as much on powertech since you can keep a better eye on the overall fight and situation but it's the difference between maybe 3% of your squads wipes and 6%.

To answer the original thread starter. There will never be a time where your PT isn't good enough when equally geared with another tank. There are some times when the assassin is not good enough for the basic content (crusher of foremans cannot be reliably solo tanked by an assassin tank for instance because they suck too much). The jugg is kind of sucky and complicated but it can still handle the same stuff as a PT.

That said there are a few fights where the assassin will require the healers to only cast 49 heals on them while the powertech will require 50. That's rarely the straw that broke the camels back. As far as tank responsibility goes, tank error will be why your party wipes because of you. Almost always if you get killed while tanking without an error then it's a either a DPS error that is bogging down the healers or a sequence of straight up healer errors.

Letsjet's Avatar


Letsjet
10.06.2012 , 02:28 AM | #5
Yeah, I guess I'll tank with either the PT or the VG. Maybe I can start clicking again instead of keybind :P
"I see you have constructed a new light saber. Your skills are complete. Indeed you are powerful as the Emperor has foreseen."

BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
10.06.2012 , 09:04 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Hatstandard View Post
(crusher of foremans cannot be reliably solo tanked by an assassin tank for instance because they suck too much)
I'm a Shadow Tank and I handle Foreman Crusher pretty *********** well. I've tanked all content (still working on TFB HM, my raid group can't skip work/ school like others and one of our guys is in Finland...) and with the exception of DPS and TPS (all tanks can handle and maintain aggro with smart play and DPS that aren't ****tarded ******es) there isn't too much of a real difference between each of the tanking classes in terms of survivability. Sometimes I take more damage than my Guardian Co-tank and sometimes I take less. Same applies to my guild's other group which has a Shadow and Vanguard.

All that said Vanguards/ Power Techs are the easiest to play as and have the highest passive mitigation (and armor for that matter), and the only thing that makes Shadows/ Sins easier to tank with than Guardians/ Juggs is the difference in threat generation.

If you're looking for info on defensives as well:

Power Techs and Vanguards have two (rather weak) defensives
25% reduction in damage for 12 seconds (2 minute CD)
15% health over 10 seconds (3 minute CD)

Assassins and Shadows have three-ish CDs
50% defense chance for 12 seconds (2 minute CD)
100% Force and Tech damage resistance for 5 seconds (1 minute CD, fluxuates)
10% health (2 minute CD, need to be specced for it)

Guardians and Juggernauts have three CDs
50% Defense and 25% reduced Force and Tech damage for 12 seconds (first 3 seconds have 100% defense chance, and this is easily the most powerful defensive in the game, 3 minute cooldown)
+30% Max health for 10 seconds (90 second cooldown)
40% damage reduction for 10 seconds (3 minute cooldown)
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
10.06.2012 , 10:39 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Hatstandard View Post
There are some times when the assassin is not good enough for the basic content (crusher of foremans cannot be reliably solo tanked by an assassin tank for instance because they suck too much). The jugg is kind of sucky and complicated but it can still handle the same stuff as a PT.
Methinks someone has an overinflated sense of the potency of PT/VG tanks and the "suckiness" of every other tank. I have never had a problem with tanking any content on my Shadow tank, including Foreman Crusher, and I've tanked Ops with all 3 of the classes. I stand by my descriptions.

The difference at the top tier is largely based upon how good you are at using and abusing the variable mechanics of your class. In general, this means CD management, which is why PT/VGs are said to have the lowest "tank ceiling": there just isn't that much to them beyond their passive and standard mitigation mechanics. Once you figure out how to faceroll your attacks while watching your ammo bar, you're pretty much as good as a PT/VG tank can get. For Guardians, once you've figured out how to manage your Focus/Rage, you're set, but you can still learn to eke a bit more out of your CDs and other mechanics when possible (playing around with Guardian Leap, learning to use FD as a tank CD, learning to cycle your 3 min CDs so that you actually use them and/or they're up when you need them since most high damage mechanics operate on a ~2 min cycle). It really isn't all that hard to know how to play a Shad/Sin (keep KW up while F/T attacks are heading at you, Project and Slow Time on CD, 3xHS TkT immediately when you get the stacks, only use DS to stop yourself from wasting Force regen), but, beyond that, there are a lot more mechanics within the realm of playing a Shadow tank that can be tweaked and abused to improve performance further: Shadow CDs require you actually know what kind of attacks are being used to best benefit from them (Resilience on Toth/Firebrand is kinda pointless and Deflection on Zorn/Stormcaller is idiotic) and their low CDs mean that, unless you're using them a lot, you're not getting everything out of them you could; KW isn't an attack like Riposte so you don't simply spam it on CD (you could, but it's gonna eat up Force; it's better to simply pay attention to it; it's not even needed on some fights/phases so you shouldn't use it); There are times when you really don't want to use TkT even though you've got 3 stacks because any movement or knockback is gonna render all of that time and Force invested in it wasted (TkT interrupted by movement phases, knockback and/or doom patches require you know fights and abuse some of your abilities to get around them).

I've played all the tank classes, and played *alongside* all of the tank classes. PT/VGs are either good or bad. There isn't enough there to really make a big difference once you're not acting like an idiot. The other tanks, however, have enough mechanics that there actually *is* a difference between someone that understands the basics of the class and someone that knows exactly how to play the class to maximize effectiveness. It's part and parcel with the amount of skill required to play the classes themselves, and I bring this up because the hecticness of a class is pretty tightly bound with the amount of skill required to play it well.

If all you're looking for is the simplest tank in the entire game, go with a PT/VG. As long as you're not an idiot, you'll tank just fine. If you're willing to put in some effort to learn the class, you won't even notice any real "hecticness" on a Jugg/Guardian; once you learn to manage your resources, it's pretty much second nature when playing it. No matter how you play it (as long as you're playing it properly instead of simply expecting everything to play like a VG), a Shad/Sin is going to exist on the hectic side of the sliding-scale between faceroll and hectic.

In all of this discussion, I think it's also important to point out that there is a difference in the "type" of hectic-ness that Guard/Juggs and Shad/Sins exhibit. Guardians are hectic because decisions made now have repercussions later on (Resource management) and more buttons to press as part of their baseline performance (purely for basic play, you've got roughly 11 abilities to interact with regularly compared to the 6-7 that the other tanks do). Shadows are hectic because you have to pay attention to a lot more (buffs at certain levels, types of attacks going against you, variable CD abilities, etc). It's a different type of hectic-ness compared to playing a Guard/Jugg (which is a bit of a culture shock when you're going from one to the other). If you're used to managing more buttons more often and are simply thrown off by how much attention to stuff aside from yourself you have to pay while playing a Shadow, Guardian/Jugg might be appropriate for you're used to that type of hectic-ness. Of course, if any type of hectic-ness is contradictory to your enjoyment of the game, PT/VG has none of it whatsoever.
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Hatstandard's Avatar


Hatstandard
10.06.2012 , 01:54 PM | #8
a PT doesn't need a cotank on the foreman who crushes.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
10.07.2012 , 11:21 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Hatstandard View Post
a PT doesn't need a cotank on the foreman who crushes.
Neither does my Shadow, nor have I ever needed a cotank. Playing a Shadow requires you actually know how and when to use your abilities rather than simply faceroll the keyboard and expect things to be dead when you look up. VG/PTs are completely idiotproof. *Anyone* can play a VG/PT effectively. You (and probably many other people with a bad opinion of Shad/Sin and Guard/Jugg tanks) are probably used to dealing with people that would be better suited to VG/PT tanking than a class that actually requires some foresight and skill. I've never had a problem on any of my 3 tanks, but I've *always* been told that my Shad/Sin is the better threat generator, damage dealer, and damage mitigator, and pretty much all of that comes from the fact that I know the class and content backwards and forwards so that I can actually use all of my abilities effectively.
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sumuser
10.07.2012 , 03:01 PM | #10
I think there is a lot of "overinflated sense of the potency" that goes on in these forums. No, you're not "cooler" or more "awesome" because you jugg tank or assassin tank. All tanks have strengths and weaknesses that play to different gaming styles. I hardly think PT is "easy" mode and all you juggs and assiassins are the "real" tanking players (no, no one has directly said it but it is implied). This entire game, while more complex then your average FPS, is pretty simple once you get a hang of it and practice.
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