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TFB HM Loot tables


IAmViiOLENT's Avatar


IAmViiOLENT
10.07.2012 , 10:05 AM | #61
Yeah.... Not really seeing the issue here..
My guild had #9 world 8m HM clear, and #2 US 8m HM clear, and the 2nd week it was out has it on farm. The "difficulty" of raids in this game is certainly not so hard as to be restricting players from doing the content.

Regarding the 1st boss loot table, I am more than fine with it dropping a piece of Hazmat; as lets be honest. The very very first day in there, we 2 shot it. There is 2, maybe 3 very easy mechanics; no positioning needed.. Its a very easy boss; as someone said earlier "You have to be this tall to enter".
The 2nd boss has more mechanics, and is slightly harder, but once again nothing special. The 3rd boss starts to ramp up the ante with some tough DPS checks, heal checks, team coordination, and quite a few mechanics that have to be done perfectly. Over all, this is the true "People are going to wipe here for weeks" boss.
The 4th boss is relatively simple as he doesnt have many mechanics, but he turns out to be a boss that needs to have perfect mechanics and teamwork. The 5th one is repetitive in a way, but once you can see that last phase; you realize that your healers and DPS really do need to pay attention and punch that things face in ASAP. It really is a rewarding operation in my opinion, and to me; there is no problem with the loot table. That second of suspense to see if you got pants or an offhand on Kephess, or chest or mainhand on Terror is something that in my opinion was a great decision.

/endrant.

Kophar's Avatar


Kophar
10.07.2012 , 10:34 AM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by IAmViiOLENT View Post
Yeah.... Not really seeing the issue here..
My guild had #9 world 8m HM clear, and #2 US 8m HM clear, and the 2nd week it was out has it on farm. The "difficulty" of raids in this game is certainly not so hard as to be restricting players from doing the content.

Regarding the 1st boss loot table, I am more than fine with it dropping a piece of Hazmat; as lets be honest. The very very first day in there, we 2 shot it. There is 2, maybe 3 very easy mechanics; no positioning needed.. Its a very easy boss; as someone said earlier "You have to be this tall to enter".
The 2nd boss has more mechanics, and is slightly harder, but once again nothing special. The 3rd boss starts to ramp up the ante with some tough DPS checks, heal checks, team coordination, and quite a few mechanics that have to be done perfectly. Over all, this is the true "People are going to wipe here for weeks" boss.
The 4th boss is relatively simple as he doesnt have many mechanics, but he turns out to be a boss that needs to have perfect mechanics and teamwork. The 5th one is repetitive in a way, but once you can see that last phase; you realize that your healers and DPS really do need to pay attention and punch that things face in ASAP. It really is a rewarding operation in my opinion, and to me; there is no problem with the loot table. That second of suspense to see if you got pants or an offhand on Kephess, or chest or mainhand on Terror is something that in my opinion was a great decision.

/endrant.
Your guild might do that and even more, again, EC HM is not even cleared for most of guilds and some not even started making EC HM, so i aint seeing really a point here from your side apart that there are guilds that clear stuff faster than others?
Yep u right there but that sill doesnt mean squat to what were talking about in here really, unless you just wanted to point out that ure the best, oops sry, 9th world best and US 2nd best, gz btw, sigh...
I saw a dark explosion. I sensed a power within. I felt the urge, the rage, the power... I AM REBORN!!

Halthay's Avatar


Halthay
10.07.2012 , 05:10 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
Going to level with you here, I've never seen gear as the real reward in endgame.
Gear allows people to do the tougher endgame content (although let's face it, prior to HM Terror we never really had an difficult content in this game) and thus is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself.

That's why I never complained about Nightmare EV/KP dropping Rakata, because for a long time there was no content after Nightmare EV/KP and thus no need for better gear.

For people who raid for a sense of Camaraderie and accomplishment, it's the challenge that gives you that warm feeling inside when you clear an Operation after hours of wipes. Gear's nice, but it's there to make it feasible to do new content, not the reward for doing new content.

Now, if you're so good that HM TFB bored you... then yes, that's a legitimate complaint.
I'm still only 2/5 HM and must have wiped a hour on HM Writhing Horror alone, so I'm liking the new stuff.
If the only objective is the challenge of progression and killing new bosses, without the need or the extra incentive of gearing up, then I will only do TFB once. When I kill the last boss I will not do it again because there is no need of gear. After finishing TFB once I will suspend my subscription until new content is available.

I realy don't think this is the purpose of Bioware when the do that lousy job on the loot tables.
The time has come to show ourselves to the universe, to let them blind under our darkness, to beg for our mercy.

Halthay's Avatar


Halthay
10.07.2012 , 05:57 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Preludah View Post
Whining about the loot not coming to you fast enough just proves that youre raiding for the wrong reasons. Wich means you stating youre hardcore is really wrong
I think the motivation for hardcore players to raid every night is both progression and gear.
If it was not so they would stop raiding after the first successfull complete run.
They keep raiding to have at all times the best in slot gear. Even loving the game, there is no one that doesn't at one moment get bored of doing the same things night after night for 5 months, even more if the gain is so low. I saw that happening on WOW.
According to some calculation I saw, the dps gain on a mercenary with full Dread Guard gear when compared with full Campaign was around 2%. What kind of incentive is that to continue playing?
The time has come to show ourselves to the universe, to let them blind under our darkness, to beg for our mercy.

IAmViiOLENT's Avatar


IAmViiOLENT
10.07.2012 , 06:21 PM | #65
And yet, thats the point. TFB HM, is not designed for players who can't clear EC HM. It was stated that it would be more difficult than EC HM by the devs many months ago. [Awesome raid btw BW, I love all of the fights!]
If a player is casual, or is not in a progression raiding guild, then chances are they will do TFB SM, and maybe the first two bosses of TFB HM. The farther in you get, its intended that it has more incentive (Starts dropping variable pieces of desirable gear + hazmat). That is how it is supposed to be working, and to me makes perfect sense. If you really have no "motivation" to clear the 1st boss anymore, then you need to start seeing the value in clearing for fun, and gearing as well.

As for "EC HM dropped two pieces of campaign per boss"!...
First boss and second boss had near useless belt & bracers. The only reason that it dropped more pieces was because there were less bosses in the tier (Counting Nightmare Pilgrim, 5 bosses). In this tier, with Nightmare EC, and TFB HM, there will 9 bosses, 8 of which drop Dread Guard. I really see no issue with that, as its much more content, time spent gearing etc. As well as that, EC HM was much too easy to gear toons in, as a result I now have 3 50's of various roles that not only have full augmented and optimized Campaign, they each have an offspec that is optimized campaign. With how gear is setup in TFB/NiM EC; that will be much much harder to obtain. Likely, by the time new content is released, my marauder will just be getting to full BiS. In my book, that is a much better alternative to "Hey, lets all have full BiS in a few weeks from BH/Campaign!". It really did bring back an incentive to doing the content longer, and I see no reason why you would be upset over the first boss dropping Hazmat, considering its totally puggable sans bad groups.

alifaraaz's Avatar


alifaraaz
10.07.2012 , 06:53 PM | #66
It's a slower grind but only half the set, so it should be I guess.

And they seem to be slowing it down in general to give a sense on longetivity. People don't always know what they want. They did complain that gearing was too quick in previous ops and now its been changes. And theres a great chance that it won't be changed based on the couple of complaints in this thread.
Kazar - Powertech, [Tomb of Freedom Nadd EU]

Kophar's Avatar


Kophar
10.08.2012 , 12:57 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by alifaraaz View Post
It's a slower grind but only half the set, so it should be I guess.

And they seem to be slowing it down in general to give a sense on longetivity. People don't always know what they want. They did complain that gearing was too quick in previous ops and now its been changes. And theres a great chance that it won't be changed based on the couple of complaints in this thread.
A sense of longetivity doesnt mean trippling the Op gear grind and ten times more the "daily" farm for hazmats implants.
I allready stated before that i wouldnt mind them for example dropping the 3 loot items on EC drop number to only 2 pieces per boss on TFB, i do understand that and im totally up for it but putting it as it is, its just non-sense.
I saw a dark explosion. I sensed a power within. I felt the urge, the rage, the power... I AM REBORN!!

Kophar's Avatar


Kophar
10.08.2012 , 01:12 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by IAmViiOLENT View Post
And yet, thats the point. TFB HM, is not designed for players who can't clear EC HM. It was stated that it would be more difficult than EC HM by the devs many months ago. [Awesome raid btw BW, I love all of the fights!]
If a player is casual, or is not in a progression raiding guild, then chances are they will do TFB SM, and maybe the first two bosses of TFB HM. The farther in you get, its intended that it has more incentive (Starts dropping variable pieces of desirable gear + hazmat). That is how it is supposed to be working, and to me makes perfect sense. If you really have no "motivation" to clear the 1st boss anymore, then you need to start seeing the value in clearing for fun, and gearing as well.
1 - Allready said before that i wasnt complaining bout ops design or how hard/easy they were. I love the new tactical design for TFB. That is totally out of the discussion here.
2 - If i wanted to clear stuff only for "fun" i wouldnt be playing an MMORPG. Fun for most of the gamers in MMORPG passes through upgrading your gear while waisting a effort/time on it. Atm the balance between upgrading gear vs effort/time is just beyond charts and that is no fun at all.

Quote: Originally Posted by IAmViiOLENT View Post
As for "EC HM dropped two pieces of campaign per boss"!...
First boss and second boss had near useless belt & bracers. The only reason that it dropped more pieces was because there were less bosses in the tier (Counting Nightmare Pilgrim, 5 bosses). In this tier, with Nightmare EC, and TFB HM, there will 9 bosses, 8 of which drop Dread Guard. I really see no issue with that, as its much more content, time spent gearing etc. As well as that, EC HM was much too easy to gear toons in, as a result I now have 3 50's of various roles that not only have full augmented and optimized Campaign, they each have an offspec that is optimized campaign. With how gear is setup in TFB/NiM EC; that will be much much harder to obtain. Likely, by the time new content is released, my marauder will just be getting to full BiS. In my book, that is a much better alternative to "Hey, lets all have full BiS in a few weeks from BH/Campaign!". It really did bring back an incentive to doing the content longer, and I see no reason why you would be upset over the first boss dropping Hazmat, considering its totally puggable sans bad groups.
1 - Again, loot itemization was also not a part of this thread, we all agree that is awfully made but it isnt what were talking about in here.
2 - The solution of resending guilds to an old content to farm it again after we allready spent 2-3 months or even more farming it just to complement loot numbers on current content, is just lame. That isnt a solution at all and it doesnt make sense.
3 - TFB HM being totally puggable made me laugh, eheh!! You guys think just because your guild is good enough to clear the entire TFB HM content, than everyone must do it.
Get real m8, EC HM isnt yet accessible for pugs and TFB HM is even less. Hack, even LI HM isnt made for pugs yet.
Just because you guys are among the best in the world, it doesnt mean that every guild is like that.
In fact top world guilds are only 1-5% of the total numbers of guilds that can clear content that easy in every MMO.
Stop giving your top world guilds as an example. We arent measuring sizes here man, were talking about the fairness on loot numbers as a hole to the entire community and im pretty sure that hardcore numbers are by vast the smaller minority here, so look to the picture in its real size, not just your corner.
I saw a dark explosion. I sensed a power within. I felt the urge, the rage, the power... I AM REBORN!!