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Respect Revan


MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.06.2012 , 07:02 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
It is fact. It is G-Canon that the PT Jedi are the best until the NJO under Luke Skywalker. I don't state it as opinion. I state it as fact. Everything I have posted is fact.

When it comes to a debate, you have to use facts. You cannot make a case on opinion. Number one rule of debating
I have made my case on fact, not opinion. Yes, I've stated my opinion, but that's not what I've been arguing.

Seriously: I dare anyone to look through my posts and tell me what I said as fact that wasn't.

Aurbere: You acuse me of arguing my opinion. Where did I do this? I've been careful sort opinion from fact. It seems you've failed to do this.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.06.2012 , 07:17 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Love is a emotion. Emotion isn't part of the light side. That's canon. I don't know what you're thinking.

I do know the facts, and I've stated already that I think that both Luke and Sidious would beat Revan. I just don't think it'd be a landslide. There's nothing wrong with that. Also, I don't know where you got that 200% number from, but it ain't canon.

This has been off topic. All I've been trying to say is that Revan isn't a push over. I've explained why using canon. If you don't think that he used both light and dark, that's fine. But even if that wasn't true, he is still a very powerful being. That's canon.

I would still like to here why you think Ki-Adi-Mundi could beat Revan. That just baffels me.
The Light Side encompasses certain emotions like compassion and love. However not the same kind of love as an intimate relationship. Love as in a love of the galaxy and life and a need to protect it.

Anakin Skywalker is stated by George Lucas to have the potential to become 200% of Sidious. Luke Skywalker realized this potential.

You have used canon facts, but you are ignoring the canon of other characters as well.

Ki-Adi Mundi was a senior member of the PT Jedi Council and was very powerful. And since the PT Jedi are canonically second only to Luke's Order, that means that he would win.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.06.2012 , 07:21 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Airmo View Post
He made them his own when he made them better, that's my opinion. The Mando's didn't use his improved upon Mando tactics so, what? How can they say "those are our tactics!" if they didn't even know what he was doing? =/

We know this? You can say this was 100% fact based on..? So what if she predicted that other stuff, doesn't mean she wasn't lying. Now I don't know why she would lie, I'm just sayin'.
Listen to what she says at the end. She clearly predicted the fall of the Republic at the hands of the Sith. She had no reason to lie anymore. Her plans had come crumbling down and she was about to die. Plus she said she even owed Meetra the truth, as her master. That is of course paraphrased.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.06.2012 , 07:23 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Ok, as Aurbere said a few seconds ago, let's chill.

You guys have branched this thread waaaay off topic. Forget the whole Luke and Sidious thing for Pete's sake. We can argue that some other time.

Aurbere: I've only argued fact. I've made my opinion clear but it isn't something I've forced on you guys. But I do feel that you've tried to force a few of your opinions on me. Leave all of our opinions alone please.

As I've said more times then I care to count, the purpose of this thread was to show why Revan could hold his own against most people. Is there seriously no one esle who thinks so? You guys have spent a lot time arguing over my opinions, which seems silly.

I'm sorry if I got a little pissed at times. If you guys think I stated something as fact that you think wasn't, then please bring it up. But don't attack my opinions. My opinion is not worth debating.
You have argued facts, but only facts about Revan. And some of what was posted was only your opinion. What I am trying to tell you is that canonically, Revan can not hold his own against Jedi and Sith of the future. I've stated it numerous times.

I wasn't trying to come off as attacking your opinion, but when it comes to educating people you must use facts and not opinion.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.06.2012 , 07:25 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
I have made my case on fact, not opinion. Yes, I've stated my opinion, but that's not what I've been arguing.

Seriously: I dare anyone to look through my posts and tell me what I said as fact that wasn't.

Aurbere: You acuse me of arguing my opinion. Where did I do this? I've been careful sort opinion from fact. It seems you've failed to do this.
I respect your opinion. However, you have based your argument on opinion and things that are untrue. Whether you know this or not is unknown to me.

I have not posted any of my opinions except for my post on Plo Koon. Everything else was fact.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Airmo's Avatar


Airmo
10.06.2012 , 07:49 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Listen to what she says at the end. She clearly predicted the fall of the Republic at the hands of the Sith. She had no reason to lie anymore. Her plans had come crumbling down and she was about to die. Plus she said she even owed Meetra the truth, as her master. That is of course paraphrased.
It's been a while since I've listened to that dialouge but I'll track it down on the tubes. Now I don't really think she lied, it's a possibility (considering the whole "Kreia is a known liar" thing people always say, especially when it comes to the "Revan was like looking into the heart of the force" comment she made), is all I was trying to say. I do think she believes that but that doesn't make it truth, she hadn't seen Revan in a while.

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
You have argued facts, but only facts about Revan. And some of what was posted was only your opinion. What I am trying to tell you is that canonically, Revan can not hold his own against Jedi and Sith of the future. I've stated it numerous times.

I wasn't trying to come off as attacking your opinion, but when it comes to educating people you must use facts and not opinion.
Said it before, I'll say it again. It isn't fair to put Revan up against anyone from the PT/NJO era, no one from Revan's era but Kun hold's a candle and thats because he's just as OP, unless maybe it's a war and not a battle. I do however think Revan has a chance against a lot of people of the Old Republic era (Including Malgus and Bane) and that's just an opinion.
"Darkness is a friend, an ally. Darkness allows us to understand others, to see what they value when they believe no one else is looking. It allows us to be honest with ourselves, to express those values that we would disavow in the light. The light blinds us. It is only in the dark that we see clearly."

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.06.2012 , 09:34 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Airmo View Post
It's been a while since I've listened to that dialouge but I'll track it down on the tubes. Now I don't really think she lied, it's a possibility (considering the whole "Kreia is a known liar" thing people always say, especially when it comes to the "Revan was like looking into the heart of the force" comment she made), is all I was trying to say. I do think she believes that but that doesn't make it truth, she hadn't seen Revan in a while.



Said it before, I'll say it again. It isn't fair to put Revan up against anyone from the PT/NJO era, no one from Revan's era but Kun hold's a candle and thats because he's just as OP, unless maybe it's a war and not a battle. I do however think Revan has a chance against a lot of people of the Old Republic era (Including Malgus and Bane) and that's just an opinion.
Kreia believes she is telling the truth. But that's about certain things like Revan. She lied about what her intentions were until she was defeated.

Yeah, I don't see the need to put him up against PT/NJO guys. He's obviously outclassed. Now the TOR era is a bit different. Revan has a chance against some characters, but most of the main characters would beat him. This includes Satele, the JK, JC, SI, and SW. I believe Malgus would beat him. I draw this conclusion because of what we see him do in the game as well as the novels and comics. My opinion, but it is backed up by facts.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Darth_Scelestus's Avatar


Darth_Scelestus
10.06.2012 , 10:10 PM | #48
I am a big Revan fan. He is awesome -- and that is partly because he is not overpowered.

It's like Superman. A character is pretty boring if he can't be beaten, if you don't fear for him. Revan is a bad***, but he isn't unbeatable.

I agree with OP. Revan could duel all these bigshots for a bit. That is my opinion. It is also my opinion that he doesn't have a huge chance of beating them. It isn't a set-in-stone thing, however; everyone makes mistakes, everyone gets distracted. And at the level these guys are at, one distraction can be the end of a fight. Look at how Palpatine -- the Super Sith -- went down. He didn't see Vader coming. So just because one character is more powerful with the Force -- whether that "power" is measured in knowledge or raw strength -- or is a better duelist, that doesn't mean they win 100% of the time. Just a little something to keep in mind.

Setting aside for the moment the tricky issue of whether or not Revan's "Force Balancing/Juggling" is canon, you need to look at whether balance is all that great in a fight, a single fight. Being "balanced," it is unlikely that Revan could hope to match Palpatine or Luke in any Force duels. Revan is said to be skilled in a variety of diverse Force techniques -- meaning lightning AND healing, which I consider diverse when they're found in the grasp of a single individual -- but, to my knowledge, isn't said to have mastered any of them (I could be wrong there, though). So Sidious could "out-lightning" him, because Revan likely hasn't focused nearly as much on his Force lightning skills as Sidious has.

In regards to Ki-Adi-Mundi beating Revan -- I must say I'm skeptical. Yes, Ki-Adi-Mundi is a powerful member of what is said to be one of the greatest Jedi Councils of all time, but Revan went up against Darth Malak when Malak had the power of the Star Forge behind him, and won. Revan went up against (spoiler for the Revan novel and at least one TOR class story)
Spoiler
So I'm not so certain Ki-Adi-Mundi, great Jedi though he is, could reliably be said to have a good chance of beating Revan.

As said before, Revan wasn't at his prime when he appeared on the Foundry, and from what I've seen, most of the Versus threads state that participants are considered to be at their very best at the moment of the fight. Plus (WARNING: OPINION AHEAD), I think the fight between the Four Speeder-Bikers of the Empire and Reborn Revan is waaaaaay too complicated to draw much from. There is no CANON "choreography," if you will, of how that fight went down. Some of the Four Speeder-Bikers could have ended up in kolto tanks from that bout; the Agent could have sniped Revan in the face while he was monologueing; we don't know. All we know about that, is that somehow, the Four Speeder-Bikers won.

Let me address the Kreia thing...
Here's how I see it. Kreia adored Revan. Kreia saw big things for the Exile. Kreia lied so much that is impossible to say, "Kreia said so, so that's PROOF!" Yes, at the end of her life, Kreia made some predictions. That she wasn't wrong about those predictions is not proof that she didn't lie about the other stuff she said at that time, defeated or no. It is possible to lie in one breath and tell the truth in the next

In regards to a Revan vs. Malgus (or Satele/other NPC of the time) match-up:
Malgus is a beast. I don't know nearly as much about him as I'd like. But I DO know Revan rather well, and I'd say Malgus is the underdog in this fight, because, let's face it, Malgus is not and never was a PC All kidding aside, I'm thinking Revan has as good a chance of beating Malgus as Malgus has of beating him. Revan is a good enough lightsaber duelist that he can hold his own against an opponent long enough for SOMETHING to happen that would either distract him or distract Malgus. Same with Force abilities and general fortitude. I think whoever wavered first would lose, as they are both skilled enough to take advantage of any openings. My opinion, not too many facts, so take it or leave it
(As far as PC vs Revan battles go, at the end of Act III, I'd give it to Revan; but remember, the PCs are not yet at their prime.)

TL;DNR:
Revan good. Revan bad. Revan beast. But Revan no Luke-level, and that a GOOD thing.

Sorry for the walls of text
Kadenn, 50 Assassin | The Bastion

Alec_Fortescue's Avatar


Alec_Fortescue
10.07.2012 , 03:01 AM | #49
Hey OP. How about you go some stasis for three hundred years, meanwhile you'll have a sadistic overlord conducting God-knows-what experiments on you, torturing you and destroying you mentally. We'll get some party to release you but then we're gonna left you alone to fight a team of four veteran special forces commandos. You think Revan would not be weakend and depraved of his powers over the 300 years? Bad end for a character, sure.There were so many potential mysteries, secrets and stories to uncover with Revan around but they took a really easy way. Get over it - he is dead. It wasn't teleportation, it was Force explosion. He is dead :/

Still... Nothing happenning in The Old Republic have been confirmed as canon, was it?!
*Best Dressed Jedi of 2014* http://mmo-fashion.com/tor-fashion-contest-results/

Atris' robes are great. But how about letting players wear the robes that are already in the game but not accessible to them?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=720547 - Cool compilation of Jedi outfits worn by NPCs.

Don't let your artists' work go to waste, Bioware

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.07.2012 , 06:08 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Alec_Fortescue View Post
Hey OP. How about you go some stasis for three hundred years, meanwhile you'll have a sadistic overlord conducting God-knows-what experiments on you, torturing you and destroying you mentally. We'll get some party to release you but then we're gonna left you alone to fight a team of four veteran special forces commandos. You think Revan would not be weakend and depraved of his powers over the 300 years? Bad end for a character, sure.There were so many potential mysteries, secrets and stories to uncover with Revan around but they took a really easy way. Get over it - he is dead. It wasn't teleportation, it was Force explosion. He is dead :/

Still... Nothing happenning in The Old Republic have been confirmed as canon, was it?!
It doesn't matter what happened to Revan at this time 'cause this wouldn't have been his prime.