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Should you Stack Expertise?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Should you Stack Expertise?

Centures's Avatar


Centures
10.06.2012 , 12:12 PM | #1
I have heard both sides

1. after 1200 Expertise balance your classes key stats

2. Have your expertise as high as you can get it

Hoping to get to clarification

Daiyukie's Avatar


Daiyukie
10.06.2012 , 12:35 PM | #2
Percentage increase > Additive increase. At the current gear level, there's really nothing that beats Expertise because it has such a soft DR curve. If you could get to like 2000+ Expertise you'd probably be better of going Power, but as it stands, the difference between 1200 Expertise and 1300 Expertise is ~2% damage on all abilities, whereas 100 Power gets you +23 damage on all attacks.

So if your attack does 2500 damage on a standard hit, then:
2500 x 1.02 = 2550
2500 + 23 = 2532

So even at higher than 1200, still worth it. Additive increases are better for small damage numbers like DoTs, percentage increases are better for high damage numbers like your class' big hitter (Railshot, Back Blast, Death Field, Heat Seeker Missile, etc.).

That's how I look at it, but obviously you need a decent starting point for the percentage increase to be worth it, but even with 1300+ expertise you have plenty of room to stack Power to get your base damage high up there.
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Yeochins's Avatar


Yeochins
10.06.2012 , 01:02 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Centures View Post
I have heard both sides

1. after 1200 Expertise balance your classes key stats

2. Have your expertise as high as you can get it

Hoping to get to clarification
  1. Depends on Advanced Class
  2. Depends on Specialization
  3. Depends on your role and play style.

For instance, an Annihilation Marauder who is often guarding and offpoint for the majority of a game is better suited to stack all Expertise. With their bleeds that heal, and defensive cooldowns it is better because they can mitigate internal and elemental damage better than someone who only stacked 1200 expertise. They can better use undying rage with less HP than a marauder with less expertise

The same marauder who finds they like to get into the action would better benefit from more power to deal more damage.
.

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
10.06.2012 , 01:09 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Daiyukie View Post
Percentage increase > Additive increase. At the current gear level, there's really nothing that beats Expertise because it has such a soft DR curve. If you could get to like 2000+ Expertise you'd probably be better of going Power, but as it stands, the difference between 1200 Expertise and 1300 Expertise is ~2% damage on all abilities, whereas 100 Power gets you +23 damage on all attacks.

So if your attack does 2500 damage on a standard hit, then:
2500 x 1.02 = 2550
2500 + 23 = 2532

So even at higher than 1200, still worth it. Additive increases are better for small damage numbers like DoTs, percentage increases are better for high damage numbers like your class' big hitter (Railshot, Back Blast, Death Field, Heat Seeker Missile, etc.).

That's how I look at it, but obviously you need a decent starting point for the percentage increase to be worth it, but even with 1300+ expertise you have plenty of room to stack Power to get your base damage high up there.
Power isn't simply additive. Each ability has a proper formula which uses the Total power for said attack type which includes Mainstat, Power, Tech/Force Power or Weapon damage (I will oftenly use the terms of Total power with this as a defenition). If an ability has a formula that says that the damage are 2 x Total power, increasing +23 damage in the Total power will give +46 on the said ability. An other ability could have only a 1.3 ratio, increasing its own damge of only +30.

In fact, what should be compared is not how much damage it adds on the statsheet, but how much percentage of Total power you gain from Power. If you're a tank, with low Total power, adding 100 Power *can* imply a percentage bonus higher than the said 2% Expertise gives... I said can because I'm not aware of how much it represents. But the more you already have Total power for exemple as a healer who has much main stat and much power, the less likely putting some Power will help better than expertise. But you also have to take in account the fact that it doesn't increase suvivability like Expertise does, so Power has to give a damn big bonus in order to be better than Expertise.

SOULCASTER's Avatar


SOULCASTER
10.06.2012 , 01:22 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Daiyukie View Post
So if your attack does 2500 damage on a standard hit, then:
2500 x 1.02 = 2550
2500 + 23 = 2532
Pretty sure something doesn't add up. No pun intended

Monterone's Avatar


Monterone
10.06.2012 , 01:38 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Daiyukie View Post
Percentage increase > Additive increase. At the current gear level, there's really nothing that beats Expertise because it has such a soft DR curve. If you could get to like 2000+ Expertise you'd probably be better of going Power, but as it stands, the difference between 1200 Expertise and 1300 Expertise is ~2% damage on all abilities, whereas 100 Power gets you +23 damage on all attacks.

So if your attack does 2500 damage on a standard hit, then:
2500 x 1.02 = 2550
2500 + 23 = 2532

So even at higher than 1200, still worth it. Additive increases are better for small damage numbers like DoTs, percentage increases are better for high damage numbers like your class' big hitter (Railshot, Back Blast, Death Field, Heat Seeker Missile, etc.).

That's how I look at it, but obviously you need a decent starting point for the percentage increase to be worth it, but even with 1300+ expertise you have plenty of room to stack Power to get your base damage high up there.
^^
This explains it pretty well for the majority of classes. Yes, some classes will benefit from power more, especially if low, but overall expertise now has an easy curve that makes investing in it a good idea.

Also of note is that even if you are pure dps, the expertise not only increases your damage by percentage instead of a lower flat increase, but it also allows you to mitigate more damage which will invariably increase your dps even more since your up time is longer -- a win/win.

Overall, do the math to see if dropping 25-50 expertise on a piece for a bit more end/main stat is worth it for you, but as a rule, have no fear to go high expertise... it's worth it.
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Pot5 > Harbinger

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
10.06.2012 , 01:56 PM | #7
I've done some maths, and without taking in account healing bonus from Expertise and assuming adding power will increase the damage of all abilities homogeneously (percentagely speaking), the bonus from Power must exceed 2.20% of the Total power* you already have before, in the case you would trade the next 100 Expertise when already at 1200 Expertise.

*As a reminder, I call Total power the total damage bonus which includes Mainstat, Power and Weapon Damage or Tech/Force Power.

Soljin's Avatar


Soljin
10.06.2012 , 01:59 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Centures View Post
I have heard both sides

1. after 1200 Expertise balance your classes key stats

2. Have your expertise as high as you can get it

Hoping to get to clarification
Your not going to get a definate answer on this.... It really does come down to what you prefer. Just switch back and forth between expertise, and power/Endurance mixes to see what works for you. Thats probably going to be the best way for you to find peace on the topic.

To many variables like others have said..Depends on AC abilities, and playstyles you favor as to whats the best combination of stats v. Expertise.

Im not going to even get started on the "Effective HP" discussion, and then you can also consider Power vs. Main stat increase w/Buffs and Percentage increases from Spec etc....Its really a trial and error question once you reach 1200 Expertise its a crap shoot.
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Clone Zerging Since 2003!

Spoletta's Avatar


Spoletta
10.06.2012 , 02:34 PM | #9
The differences is of at most a couple of % points, there is no way to discern them apart from a mathematical approach.

TheronFett's Avatar


TheronFett
10.06.2012 , 03:32 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Spoletta View Post
The differences is of at most a couple of % points, there is no way to discern them apart from a mathematical approach.
This ^

The theorycrafters can chime in all they want, but in the end, the difference is so small, it doesn't even matter anyway.