Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Respect Revan


MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.06.2012 , 11:43 AM | #1
Yes, I'm a fanboy. Get over it.

Alright, I've been reading posts for weeks concerning Revan, and I've heard so much BS I'm about to lose my mind. If you don't like Revan, that's cool. If you aren't interested in him, then there's nothing wrong with that. But what's not cool is when you say things concerning him that are simply not true. I'm going to defend Revan and explain why he ISN'T a pushover and why he could fight toe-to-toe with nearly anyone. What I'm about to say IS canon.

Here I will name several strengths of Revan:

1: He was one of the best lightsaber duelists of his day. And there were plenty of Jedi in his time, so this doubtlessly
means something.

2: He was an GREAT tactician. He turned the tide of the Mandolorian War the second he became a participent. Proof of this comes from Canderous Ordo. I don't want to chase down quotes, but basically a Mandolorian (these guys study warfare their whole lives) praised Revan's tactics several times. Revan was without a doubt a military genius. Also, I believe Kreia gave Revan some praise on this subject as well (not sure though).

3: He learned how to use the lightside very well in just a few weeks of training. Granted, this is partially due to the fact that he'd technically been trained before. But still this shows his understanding of the force was remarkeable. Kreia mentioned Revan's understanding of the force several times. She said looking at Revan was "like looking into the heart of the force."

4: At Revan's peak (which was after the Jedi Civil War) he used a combination of both the lightside and darkside of the force. This would have made him both very powerful AND unpredictable in a fight. Also, when Revan sees the mask that he had when he was a Sith, his memories came back to him, adding to his knowledge of the force, and accordingly adding to his power.

I know there are a few of you out there (Aurbere for example) who don't think it is possible to use both sides of the force. If one was to think about it, one would agree that using both sides of the force is impossoble. The thing is, the novel stated that Revan COULD used both sides of the force. So it doesn't matter what you think, it's CANON that Revan used both sides. You can ignore that if you want, but it's fact.

So with all of that in mind, Revan is a force to be reckoned with.

There was a thread discussing who would win in a free for all with Revan, Exar Kun, Vader, and Bane. First off, anyone could win this fight. These are all very powerful people. But to say that Revan wouldn't stand a chance, is absolutely ridiculous. In my OPINION Revan's got the upper hand in this fight. He's one of the more skilled duelists of this group, he uses botht sides of the force, making him very powerful and unpredictable, and he's the best and most tested tactician of this group. The other's weaknesses are this:

Vader is limited by his armor, like it or not. Yes he's more powerful then he was in ROTS but he'd be a LOT more powerful if he'd never lost with Obi-wan (am I the only one who loves Obi?)

Kun is cocky. He may be a better duelist the Revan, but Revan is a better force user and a better tactician then Kun.

I confess my knowledge of Bane isn't much, but I've never heard of him killing anyone noteworthy.

So that's that. One more thing: Aurbere stated that Darth Malgus could could beat Revan AND Malak with ease! You sir, are neglecting canon! Yes, Malgus could beat Malak, but no, he couldn't beat both them both in a million years! You could make a arguement that he could possibly beat Revan one-on-one, but even then, Malgus would be the underdog.

So that's what I think. If being a fan and admirer of a interesting/powerful guy makes me a ignorant/biased fanboy, so be it.

DarthBandeth's Avatar


DarthBandeth
10.06.2012 , 11:57 AM | #2
Bane would win. Definitely with Orbalisks, and very likely without. Sadly I think Vader would be the first to go, since all of these characters are known to have used Force Lightning (Kun I'm not sure about).

Bane practiced deeply against countering double bladed lightsaber techniques, so I have no doubt he can handle Kun, especially with his considerable force abilities.

Bane is basically Vader without the limitations of the suit. Djem So. A lot of power, but Bane has a more wide access of Force Powers, and is more agile.

Revan I think is Bane's biggest competition, and I'm really not a fan of people who refer to Revan as being one of the most powerful of all time. He's very good, but he's not the best of all time, not even in my top 10. Tactician wouldn't help him here, "heart of the force" is Kreia's biased opinion (she did train him after all). However, Revan's knowledge of ancient sith techniques (rituals for example) is just as great as Bane's, Bane did after all learn from Revan from his holocron.

However, Bane has his ritual of essence transfer. Should he lose, he could attempt to take over someone's body (if we're talking post - orbalisks), and against someone who's mind isn't as honed as Zannah's, this could prove fatal. If we're talking about Bane during his Orbalisks, he's going to be unstoppable.
"No amount of action or explosions is as interesting as a good story." ~ Christian bale

Stole this CE key off of a dead fan.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
10.06.2012 , 12:02 PM | #3
1.He was a big fish in a small pond.

2.He got all of his tactics from the mandalorians and the Sith way of doing things, he used his number of Jedi and greater army of troops to overwhelm them, not all that impressive when you really consider it.

3.You said it yourself, he was retrained into the Light Side, his new identity, the old one still had all of his previous power, Kreia also said the Exile was her greatest student and all modern day Jedi are nothing compared to the ancients, Jolee Bindo also stated that Revan and Malak were basically Sith wannabes compared to Exar Kun and Ulic-Qel Droma.

4.It's against G-canon, get to grips with that and move on, Drew's attempts to make his baby the next best thing to the Chosen One failed, he can't beat Lucas or Chee, simple, hence we know that he achieved oneness with the force, due to the description being pretty much exactly the same to the description gave for when Jacen Solo achieved oneness with the force.

Now what does Revan have that poses a significant threat to Vader, Bane or Kun? exactly, what does Vader, Bane and Kun have that would pose a serious threat to Revan? a hell of a lot.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
10.06.2012 , 12:15 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthBandeth View Post
Bane would win. Definitely with Orbalisks, and very likely without. Sadly I think Vader would be the first to go, since all of these characters are known to have used Force Lightning (Kun I'm not sure about).

Bane practiced deeply against countering double bladed lightsaber techniques, so I have no doubt he can handle Kun, especially with his considerable force abilities.

Bane is basically Vader without the limitations of the suit. Djem So. A lot of power, but Bane has a more wide access of Force Powers, and is more agile.

Revan I think is Bane's biggest competition, and I'm really not a fan of people who refer to Revan as being one of the most powerful of all time. He's very good, but he's not the best of all time, not even in my top 10. Tactician wouldn't help him here, "heart of the force" is Kreia's biased opinion (she did train him after all). However, Revan's knowledge of ancient sith techniques (rituals for example) is just as great as Bane's, Bane did after all learn from Revan from his holocron.

However, Bane has his ritual of essence transfer. Should he lose, he could attempt to take over someone's body (if we're talking post - orbalisks), and against someone who's mind isn't as honed as Zannah's, this could prove fatal. If we're talking about Bane during his Orbalisks, he's going to be unstoppable.
I am the OP of that particular thread, all of these were in their prime, Bane did NOT have his orbalisks, they were actually more of a liability than a reliability, they made him lose focus and do foolish things.

Vader is not weak against lightning, that is a misconception, he is actually the opposite, highly resistant to it, Galen marek turned him into a battery, but it did nothing but make him kneel down, Sidious' lightning killed him sure, because it was the most powerful Lightning ever seen(it could bend Master Windu's lightsaber), but he also died because his life support had failed and the rage of the Dark Side that sustained him was no longer present, due to his redemption, it was this combination that led to his slow death.

Bane would not be able to handle Kun, think about this, he was helpless against Zannah's sorcery and Kun's makes Zannah's look amateur at best, his Force Blasts were made out of pure Dark Side energy, something Bane had no defense against, in the form of a wyrm summoned by Zannah, Kun was also so unpredictable and had such a strange duelling technique I highly doubt bane would know any serious counters against such a vicious Jar'Kai/Niman combination.

And Bane is NOT Vader without the suit, Darth Caedus is and he'd wipe the floor with the lot of these, Vader was the greatest Jedi killer ever, he was the most dominating and powerful machine the galaxy had seen, his telekinetics outmatch Bane's and his vast amount of Duelling skill due to him being possibly the greatest Djem-So practitioner ever mixed with a high proficiency in Makashi and Soresu, would make him Bane but on the next level.
(Then add in the whole point of the Rule of Two, Vader has to be better than Bane, or there was no real point.)

Essence Transfer would be useful, but consider that it took Zannah a couple of minutes to regain her whereabouts and he'd be dead in his confusion anyway, even an mildly intelligent duellist knows to strike down as many people as possible with the least risk to yourself in a multi-combatant fight.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.06.2012 , 12:53 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Yes, I'm a fanboy. Get over it.

Alright, I've been reading posts for weeks concerning Revan, and I've heard so much BS I'm about to lose my mind. If you don't like Revan, that's cool. If you aren't interested in him, then there's nothing wrong with that. But what's not cool is when you say things concerning him that are simply not true. I'm going to defend Revan and explain why he ISN'T a pushover and why he could fight toe-to-toe with nearly anyone. What I'm about to say IS canon.

Here I will name several strengths of Revan:

1: He was one of the best lightsaber duelists of his day. And there were plenty of Jedi in his time, so this doubtlessly
means something.

2: He was an GREAT tactician. He turned the tide of the Mandolorian War the second he became a participent. Proof of this comes from Canderous Ordo. I don't want to chase down quotes, but basically a Mandolorian (these guys study warfare their whole lives) praised Revan's tactics several times. Revan was without a doubt a military genius. Also, I believe Kreia gave Revan some praise on this subject as well (not sure though).

3: He learned how to use the lightside very well in just a few weeks of training. Granted, this is partially due to the fact that he'd technically been trained before. But still this shows his understanding of the force was remarkeable. Kreia mentioned Revan's understanding of the force several times. She said looking at Revan was "like looking into the heart of the force."

4: At Revan's peak (which was after the Jedi Civil War) he used a combination of both the lightside and darkside of the force. This would have made him both very powerful AND unpredictable in a fight. Also, when Revan sees the mask that he had when he was a Sith, his memories came back to him, adding to his knowledge of the force, and accordingly adding to his power.

I know there are a few of you out there (Aurbere for example) who don't think it is possible to use both sides of the force. If one was to think about it, one would agree that using both sides of the force is impossoble. The thing is, the novel stated that Revan COULD used both sides of the force. So it doesn't matter what you think, it's CANON that Revan used both sides. You can ignore that if you want, but it's fact.

So with all of that in mind, Revan is a force to be reckoned with.

There was a thread discussing who would win in a free for all with Revan, Exar Kun, Vader, and Bane. First off, anyone could win this fight. These are all very powerful people. But to say that Revan wouldn't stand a chance, is absolutely ridiculous. In my OPINION Revan's got the upper hand in this fight. He's one of the more skilled duelists of this group, he uses botht sides of the force, making him very powerful and unpredictable, and he's the best and most tested tactician of this group. The other's weaknesses are this:

Vader is limited by his armor, like it or not. Yes he's more powerful then he was in ROTS but he'd be a LOT more powerful if he'd never lost with Obi-wan (am I the only one who loves Obi?)

Kun is cocky. He may be a better duelist the Revan, but Revan is a better force user and a better tactician then Kun.

I confess my knowledge of Bane isn't much, but I've never heard of him killing anyone noteworthy.

So that's that. One more thing: Aurbere stated that Darth Malgus could could beat Revan AND Malak with ease! You sir, are neglecting canon! Yes, Malgus could beat Malak, but no, he couldn't beat both them both in a million years! You could make a arguement that he could possibly beat Revan one-on-one, but even then, Malgus would be the underdog.

So that's what I think. If being a fan and admirer of a interesting/powerful guy makes me a ignorant/biased fanboy, so be it.
Wow! A thread directed towards me!? Never thought I'd see the day...
Alright, let's address these points you've made. Perhaps we can educate the misinformed.

1. You're a fanboy. Glad we agree.

2. Of his day, yes. But compare him to duelists of the future and he is outclassed.

3. He used Mandalorian tactics coupled with the Republic army and a very large number of Jedi to gain the victory. He did not create some uber-leet tactic that completely outwitted everyone.

4. In this case, learning to use the Force was like riding a bike. Because he had been previously trained in the Force, re-learning was pretty easy. And Kreia has a personal bias towards Revan, it's clear in the way she speaks. Plus she lies all the time so don't believe her.

5. What we have here is a misinterpretation of events. Revan did not use both sides. Goes against G-Canon in every way. What he did do was atain a brief moment of Oneness with the Force. The description bears many similarities to Jacen Solo's moment of Oneness. And no Revan will never be able to pull that off again. He's fallen too far.

My final point on the Malgus vs. Malak fight. Let me put it this way. In the Foundry Kallig, The Emperor's Wrath, The Grand Champion and Cipher Nine were not at there best and they beat Revan. (I'm gonna be honest, I was under-leveled and that fight was so easy.) Then Malgus goes rogue and it takes the four Imperial classes at their best to beat him. This is when Kallig has his ghosts (if Dark Side is canon), the Emperor's Wrath is at his full power (at this point) and the Grand Champion and Cipher Nine have access to the best equipment that they can get (along with refined battle experience). So it stands to reason that if it takes the four Imperial classes at full power to beat Malgus, when they were only roughly half that fight Revan, then Malgus could take Revan and Malak on at the same time and wreck them.

A thread made by yours truly shedding some light on Revan: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=525649

EDIT: As to the thread title, I do respect Revan. I like Revan, but I will not lie about him just to make him seem cooler. In fact, the truth makes him seem like a dud.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
10.06.2012 , 01:26 PM | #6
Its ok to be a fan of any character, just don't put them on a pedastool that they shouldn't be on. A fan of a character should know the limitations, that is part of being a fan and what makes them a real fan.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
10.06.2012 , 01:34 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Its ok to be a fan of any character, just don't put them on a pedastool that they shouldn't be on. A fan of a character should know the limitations, that is part of being a fan and what makes them a real fan.
Exactly. We all have favorite characters, but a real Star Wars fan knows when his character is outmatched. i know Plo Koon couldn't beat the likes of Darth Sidious and Luke Skywalker or some of the NJO Jedi. He can beat a good number of characters, but that's not the point. the point is, you aren't a real fan if you don't accept the fact that your fav character isn't all-powerful.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.06.2012 , 02:01 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Wow! A thread directed towards me!? Never thought I'd see the day...
Alright, let's address these points you've made. Perhaps we can educate the misinformed.

1. You're a fanboy. Glad we agree.

2. Of his day, yes. But compare him to duelists of the future and he is outclassed.

3. He used Mandalorian tactics coupled with the Republic army and a very large number of Jedi to gain the victory. He did not create some uber-leet tactic that completely outwitted everyone.

4. In this case, learning to use the Force was like riding a bike. Because he had been previously trained in the Force, re-learning was pretty easy. And Kreia has a personal bias towards Revan, it's clear in the way she speaks. Plus she lies all the time so don't believe her.

5. What we have here is a misinterpretation of events. Revan did not use both sides. Goes against G-Canon in every way. What he did do was atain a brief moment of Oneness with the Force. The description bears many similarities to Jacen Solo's moment of Oneness. And no Revan will never be able to pull that off again. He's fallen too far.

My final point on the Malgus vs. Malak fight. Let me put it this way. In the Foundry Kallig, The Emperor's Wrath, The Grand Champion and Cipher Nine were not at there best and they beat Revan. (I'm gonna be honest, I was under-leveled and that fight was so easy.) Then Malgus goes rogue and it takes the four Imperial classes at their best to beat him. This is when Kallig has his ghosts (if Dark Side is canon), the Emperor's Wrath is at his full power (at this point) and the Grand Champion and Cipher Nine have access to the best equipment that they can get (along with refined battle experience). So it stands to reason that if it takes the four Imperial classes at full power to beat Malgus, when they were only roughly half that fight Revan, then Malgus could take Revan and Malak on at the same time and wreck them.

A thread made by yours truly shedding some light on Revan: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=525649

EDIT: As to the thread title, I do respect Revan. I like Revan, but I will not lie about him just to make him seem cooler. In fact, the truth makes him seem like a dud.
1: He's outclassed by future duelists? How's that? That sounds like a opinion not based on canon to me. If he is the best duelist of his day, then he could hold his own with most anyone. I'm not saying he could beat anyone, but I can't think of anyone who would win by a landslide when fighting Revan.

2: You're right, he did have a greater sized army then the Mandos. But the magnitude at which he beat them was still very impressive. And like I said before, Canderous Ordo, who had studied war his entire life, praised Revan over and over again. Need I say more on that subject?

3: Yes, Kreia lied a lot. But even she wouldn't lie without reason! Why would she tell the Exile lies about Revan? How does that help her? Unless you can prove she wasn't telling the truth (which you can't) then you've got nothing there.

4: Revan DID use both sides! It states so in the book! Yes, it contradicts what some other sources say, but what makes those sources correct? This is one of those errors in writing about something as broad as Star Wars. Sources sometimes contradict eachother. If you looked around, there are so many contradictory things in Star Wars it's crazy!
In a story, things don't always fit together too nicely. This is something you have to accept.

5: You're taking the order of the game XP like that? That's seriously flawed thinking! Here's an example why:

Compare the average droid you fight at level 50 to some random Jedi you fight at level 10. The droid is a lot more powerful isn't he? Do think that the writer's are trying to say that the droid is better then the Jedi in reality? Heck no! They just want you to fight a Jedi early on. For this same reason, your logic is flawed.

Lastly, let me make it clear that I never said Revan was better the Kun, Vader, or Bane. If I said that, then it wouldn't be based on canon. What is based on canon is that Revan IS in the same ball park as these guys. He's no pushover. That's canon whether you like it or not. I only said that it's my OPINION that Revan was better. So let's not get hung up on who would win. I'm just saying that he wouldn't be beaten easily.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.06.2012 , 02:03 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Exactly. We all have favorite characters, but a real Star Wars fan knows when his character is outmatched. i know Plo Koon couldn't beat the likes of Darth Sidious and Luke Skywalker or some of the NJO Jedi. He can beat a good number of characters, but that's not the point. the point is, you aren't a real fan if you don't accept the fact that your fav character isn't all-powerful.
I never said Revan was all powerful. If that's what you think I'm saying, then you have misunderstood me completely.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
10.06.2012 , 02:07 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
1.He was a big fish in a small pond.

2.He got all of his tactics from the mandalorians and the Sith way of doing things, he used his number of Jedi and greater army of troops to overwhelm them, not all that impressive when you really consider it.

3.You said it yourself, he was retrained into the Light Side, his new identity, the old one still had all of his previous power, Kreia also said the Exile was her greatest student and all modern day Jedi are nothing compared to the ancients, Jolee Bindo also stated that Revan and Malak were basically Sith wannabes compared to Exar Kun and Ulic-Qel Droma.

4.It's against G-canon, get to grips with that and move on, Drew's attempts to make his baby the next best thing to the Chosen One failed, he can't beat Lucas or Chee, simple, hence we know that he achieved oneness with the force, due to the description being pretty much exactly the same to the description gave for when Jacen Solo achieved oneness with the force.

Now what does Revan have that poses a significant threat to Vader, Bane or Kun? exactly, what does Vader, Bane and Kun have that would pose a serious threat to Revan? a hell of a lot.
What do you mean beat Lucas? I never said Drew's novel was good (although I did enjoy it). The fact is, Drew's book got published and thus it should be reckonized as Star Wars fact, regardless of what you think about his writing.