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Can we get an update on Bioware's stance?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Can we get an update on Bioware's stance?

Thylbanus's Avatar


Thylbanus
10.06.2012 , 01:49 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Deewe View Post
Heal what heal? I play a gunnery Trooper and got none.

And BTW as you're suggesting I adapted: I don't play anymore my Trooper at all nor the game either.

Next feedback I'm going to give after having tested it on the PTS, reported the issue and even tried it again will be to cancel my sub. Anyway, at this point one less sub won't change anything at all.
So if you are not playing anymore, that means that you haven't fully modified your play style or explored any of the new possibilities. Why comment at all then?
It's amazing how loud a dollar can be.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristin Wilson

Thylbanus's Avatar


Thylbanus
10.06.2012 , 01:56 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by Wraiven View Post
See this post? Just one of MANY posts like it. All this post does, is adds to my point. There are a ton more where this came from, both on these boards, in game and on private boards.

How many people have to quit out of frustration before people finally listen? There are a ton of games out there that no longer exist, because the Developers would not listen to their community. Next thing you know, all the people who "QQed" left, leaving the game strictly for the "Fine like it is, I like it" players...which sadly as not enough to keep the game afloat.

Sad...I am sitting here, watching my favorite game of all time die, this is Rome all over again. We watched other games die for this very reason...now I have to sit and watch this one die too. History repeats itself yet again. Even after this game has died out completely...nobody will learn a lesson from it. They will simply migrate to another game and repeat the same process all over again. This saddens me...
Sadly you are falling into the most common rut of most people. Waiving evidence that supports your case in peoples faces while burying and ignoring evidence that refutes it. This "nerf" will only chase away those who were most likely going to leave anyway. They are already dissatisfied with the game and just needed a little push. The new players will not know a different play style, so there will be no problem there. All this adds up to is a bunch of people angry that their little "cheat" was discovered and shut down. Too bad.

Life and this game goes on...
It's amazing how loud a dollar can be.
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." - Kristin Wilson

grombrinda's Avatar


grombrinda
10.06.2012 , 02:03 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Thylbanus View Post
Sadly you are falling into the most common rut of most people. Waiving evidence that supports your case in peoples faces while burying and ignoring evidence that refutes it. This "nerf" will only chase away those who were most likely going to leave anyway. They are already dissatisfied with the game and just needed a little push. The new players will not know a different play style, so there will be no problem there. All this adds up to is a bunch of people angry that their little "cheat" was discovered and shut down. Too bad.

Life and this game goes on...
If this was true....then this game going f2p would've never happened.
It's called lack of quality control....maybe some day .........whatever.
We didn't start the Star Wars,They were already fightin' em,since George was writing them!!

Bloodstealer's Avatar


Bloodstealer
10.06.2012 , 02:23 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Roalmo View Post
Quiet, he's a pvper. He won't understand.
And you must be.... a PvE'er... see what you opened with that ridiculous line.

The game does not limit anyone to one side of that equation and the abilities that are provided with each class have a global requirement in the game.. unless you would like BW to close both PvP and PvE so that they can redesign it to suit your childish wimms.

Balancing a game is never easy, never often liked by any or all and is never completely finished. Any experienced MMO player understands that balance is constanly evolving as gear, content, tactics and playstyles evolve so SWTOR is no different to any other MMO out there, or show me one that doesn't balance and rebalance from time to time.
I am not really a PvP player but totally understand the reasoning behind the rebalancing.. do I like it? - not really but does it make the game unplayable? - No.

At worst all you have to do is relearn how to use the ability or swap tactics.
Either way to have a game that has an ability doing one thing in one environment and another in another is simply not feasable and a silly idea.

Nerfs happen for a reason, deal with it or ---->>>> EXIT
Leader of The Misfits & Mercenaries Guild.
Death or Glory - It's all just a game to me!

Bloodstealer's Avatar


Bloodstealer
10.06.2012 , 02:55 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Wraiven View Post
See this post? Just one of MANY posts like it. All this post does, is adds to my point. There are a ton more where this came from, both on these boards, in game and on private boards.
In many you mean a few like you, as many of the QQ'er you see that post out the same stuff over and over in game, on here and on other boards are more than likely the same people, like you that visit all those places to QQ... the actual percentages of players posting here or elsewhere is a drop in the ocean really.

How many people have to quit out of frustration before people finally listen? There are a ton of games out there that no longer exist, because the Developers would not listen to their community. Next thing you know, all the people who "QQed" left, leaving the game strictly for the "Fine like it is, I like it" players...which sadly as not enough to keep the game afloat.
Whilst this game has it issues with sub retention, I think you might be suprised how many of the continual QQ'er that say they are quitting cos of "X" nerfbat hitting their one trick pony toons.. simply dont quit they just slide under a stone waiting for the next thing to QQ about. I've been there, I have posted my fair share of posts iterating my dislike of certain aspects of this game... but I am still here.
Sure many have upped and gone, too many if I am honest, to the point it has stung the game hard so early on, but not because an ability has been changed or tweaked here and there ...


Sad...I am sitting here, watching my favorite game of all time die, this is Rome all over again. We watched other games die for this very reason...now I have to sit and watch this one die too. History repeats itself yet again. Even after this game has died out completely...nobody will learn a lesson from it. They will simply migrate to another game and repeat the same process all over again. This saddens me...
Lol because of a rebalance or nerf to an ability that really isn't all that different except maybe visually.. cmon stop with the over dramatising please... if you think this game will fail because of this or similar things, then you really aren't what I would call an MMO player and perhaps console games might suit you better... in a month this will simply be forgotten just like the other abilites in SWTOR or other games that have been rebalnced/nerfed.. sure the ones that are lazy and dont want to take the time to work out how to use the changes might leave but I would hazard a guess that the vast majority will simply move on and learn to deal with it... this game has much bigger issues that see subs decline than this .
Like you said it isn't / wasn't broken and animation aside isn't really that different but it requires players to relearn how to use it effectively but more importantly for other players in the group to learn how to work with it.. that is not a Bioware issue, that is a player issue.
The same thing could be said about general CC's and AoE's being used when engaging the same group of mobs.. I will guarantee there will always be someone that forgets what advantage CC'ing mobs has in and happily goes about firing an XL-Freighter or"name AoE here" which now sets off an addition 3 or 4 mobs at them and then foolishly calls out the healer for not doing their job apparently.... balance and nerfs are introduced for a reason, and game mechaincs are always being tweaked here and there. Be happy BW actually told you up front, some games just do it regarless.. or worse allow the game to continue to be out of balance, stale and unchallenging...

Bottom line some players like to feel secure that their one tricky pony is ubersauce many others enjoy games that challenge them to learn their class, their abilities and limitations.. balance keeps that process from drying up imo.
Leader of The Misfits & Mercenaries Guild.
Death or Glory - It's all just a game to me!

Hockeyfan's Avatar


Hockeyfan
10.06.2012 , 02:59 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by MidichIorian View Post
I bet this is how the stun range reduction happened.

1-We need to reduce stuns
2-What if we were to reduce stun range?
1-Yeah I dont know, they're currently being used by the weakest classes in the game.
2-Doesnt matter, let's to it anyway. They can always re-roll

Now, resolve changes:

1- We still havent figured out a way to seperate pugs from premades so the pugs are complaining about getting stunlocked to death.
2-Easy solution, let's make it so that it's equally easy for pugs to stun people to death.
1-Deal!

OL/FW:
1-I just noticed that no one has ever complained about the FW/OL knockback. Well other than that it's not instant of course. How are we doing on that by the way?
2-Yeah it's weird that everyone is satisfied with it. Let's just change it. I mean, we still want this game to be dead by January, right?
1-Let's make it a cone. I mean, we've done everything we can to keep those 6K eating, cloth wearing bastards out of warzones but they still don't get it. so this might be the final straw.
2-Hold it, let's buff smash while we're at it, just to make sure.
1-Good point. They're stupid if they don't get the message this time.
Wow, it is as if you were in the room for the decisions. I can't imagine that conversation happened any differently.

*Edit: People need to stop bringing up the crappy self heal that gets wiped out in one hit in pvp, and does not make up for ruining overload in pve.
Jacen Solo
Skywalker Legacy

Monoth's Avatar


Monoth
10.06.2012 , 03:19 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Sami View Post
I understand the changes for PvP, but I wish the changes had been limited to PvP. As it stands, cryo-grenade and force stun have become completely useless in PvE. These are ranged classes. Force wave, which was my healer's "oh crap, I'm getting mobbed!" maneuver now no longer works that way. The new mechanic has it's own uses, but having to run away from the mob that *always* heads straight for the healer in an op while trying to intensively heal generally causes problems. Sages can't run and heal very well. It does work rather well to send part of the mob flying to the tank, however.
Give me a a break, as a Tank I HATED the Sorc's 360 AOE Knockback, made it harder to tank and as a DPS'er like gunslinger there is nothing more irritating then Sorc's using there knockbacks on a group of mobs right as your dropping your AOE attack which then misses everything because the stupid sorc just knocked everything out of the AOE target area.....

Besides the AOE is not going to save you for very long, it knockbacks the mobs for what a couple seconds then it's on CD and all the mobs are all over you again.... If anything your 360 AOE Knockback just grab even more aggro as all the mobs you just knock back including the ones that were not aggroed on you are now all over you...

If anything the AOE knockback was a terriable skill in a group... Makes the tanks job harder and DPS'ers hate it....
F2P is like driving on a long stretch of highway with toll booths every 1/2 mile

TMar's Avatar


TMar
10.06.2012 , 03:49 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by LogicalPremise View Post
So let me get this straight:

You took a tool that could either function as a push or as an escape, and turned it into something can only push, and it's better?

First, the fact that you can do that with the cone and not the 360 is a matter of skill on your part. You claim that it takes more "thinking" to use this, but it doesn't. It took a lot more thinking to correctly use the 360 to knock peeps where you wanted them to go. What this does, instead, is make it very easy to push people directionally, but zero utility when you are being swarmed or hit from two directions.

PvE that's senseless, because the only real use for it was to blast though packs of trash when soloing or knock away enemies in FP/OP long enough for a tank to regain aggro. PvP that's senseless, because now your defense tool is directional, and in playing PvP I see ZERO people able to keep that Mara off their back now. I have yet to see anyone going on about how "good it is" now actually agree to PvP to demonstrate this vaunted improvement.

Because you can't. Oh it has more utility at pushing, so it's better for the best players, but you've screwed over the casuals who , y'know, make up most of the population and pay the bills for this trainwreck.

Leave all that aside. You think it should have been changed because it irritates you when someone does "splody stuff" in a mob of trash (I presume in an OP, because if you get enraged at random people during solo PvE....)

I can't think of a more asinine and ridiculous reason than this to nerf anything. Can we nerf DPS who rip threat off the tank? Can we nerf tanks showing up in DPS spec and gear?

The OP has a very good point -- and I reiterate a point I raised when this happened that NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON has met with anything approaching logic.

NO ONE ASKED for changes to Sorc / Sage of this nature. NO ONE COMPLAINED. PVP forum asked for FIXES to all the stunlocking, nerfing down Maras and PT and OP's and mirrors, and some more tools for Troopers/BH. We got an anti-fix for stunlocking that has just lead to MORE stunlocking, nothing done about the OP classes at ALL, and nerfs we didn't even WANT along with some good tools for Trooper/BH.

Again, just because you love BW does not mean everyone does, and the fact that you like their change doesn't invalidate the fact that lots of people don't.
I as well like the change and my main is a sourc. How can it not be used as a push or escape as a cone? If someone is giving chase how hard is it to turn around for a split second to knock them back? I'll tell you not very hard even at FPS's in the teens. The thing is before the change you saw ZERO people able to keep mara's off their back and it's still just as hard, not ANY harder.

As far as PVE goes since mobs tend to want to stand in front of you it's a non issue. If you get jumped by mobs from behind you while fighting it's easy to take a step backwards to knock them forwards or to spin around to knock them back.
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There is no discussing, there is only trolling
There is one constant, there is trolling
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Foobert's Avatar


Foobert
10.06.2012 , 07:25 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
Give me a a break, as a Tank I HATED the Sorc's 360 AOE Knockback, made it harder to tank and as a DPS'er like gunslinger there is nothing more irritating then Sorc's using there knockbacks on a group of mobs right as your dropping your AOE attack which then misses everything because the stupid sorc just knocked everything out of the AOE target area.....

Besides the AOE is not going to save you for very long, it knockbacks the mobs for what a couple seconds then it's on CD and all the mobs are all over you again.... If anything your 360 AOE Knockback just grab even more aggro as all the mobs you just knock back including the ones that were not aggroed on you are now all over you...

If anything the AOE knockback was a terriable skill in a group... Makes the tanks job harder and DPS'ers hate it....
Furthermore, if the OP is relying on a 60second cooldown for a 4 second stun to win at PvE, there is something else terribly wrong with the way they are playing. Every time I see a trooper pugmate throw that cryo grenade on initial aggro, I cringe - it's like using a lifeline at the beginning of the fight. Why would you do that? If the tank in your group isn't grabbing aggro away from the healer, that's the tank's fault, not the fact that you might happen to have an unusable 60s CD 4s stun (which was probably going to cause the target of that effect to aggro you after it expires anyway).

I have also seen many time in a pug where a healer sage goes an force waves away a mob from 10ft away, breaking the mob's contact with the sentinel or guardian that is in close combat with the mob. I shake my head at those too. Or if I'm a vanguard trying to line up ion cannon or aoe grenade and poof the mob is suddenly pushed past 10m. *SMH*

Wraiven's Avatar


Wraiven
10.06.2012 , 08:07 AM | #50
@Bloodstealer

Really? So since you can't make any real coherent points to back up anything you say, you want to insult me? I'm not even going to dignify your insults with a direct response. Just know that I saw what you did dar... I'm sure everyone else did too.
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