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Jug Tanks not as good as Other Tanks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Tanking
Jug Tanks not as good as Other Tanks

NRVNQSR's Avatar


NRVNQSR
10.04.2012 , 08:29 AM | #51
you want a pull? Because Saber Throw and Force Leap aren't pulls?

Jholiday's Avatar


Jholiday
10.04.2012 , 08:32 AM | #52
OP title is weak and non specific , they both have their pros.

Jugg;
Higher Mitigation when geared properly.
Faster positioning and re-engaging of the boss through charge.
Better deffensive CD's
Armor Debuff on boss

Assasin:
Higher HP helps against internal damage
Force speed helps to proactively more to where the boss will be.
Ability to cloak out of certain boss effects
CC ability (Best of the Inquisitor attributes IMO)
Pull-2nd best of the inquisitor abilities

PT:

Huge Damage
Aoe Threat
Pull

Other than that I think if anyone is @ a disadvantage its PT's
You stack em up, I burn em down !

Peter_'s Avatar


Peter_
10.04.2012 , 12:44 PM | #53
hi i saw lot of people talking about 30/50/50 for jugg. can somebody please tell me where does it come from? is there any article or some charts showing this?

thanks
.

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
10.04.2012 , 02:29 PM | #54
Geared, speced and played properly, of course Guardian tanks are viable. They are totally solid.

But you are crazy if you think our PvE utility holds up to the other two tanks.

Pull is so much better than push for trash encounters. Stealth and cc blow away friendly leap (seriously, who uses this!) Don't get me wrong, these abilities are awesome in PvP, but in PvE I seldom if ever use them.

As for leap, storm, speed: they are the gap closers. We all get one, they have pluses and minuses.
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Spatology
10.04.2012 , 02:48 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Geared, speced and played properly, of course Guardian tanks are viable. They are totally solid.

But you are crazy if you think our PvE utility holds up to the other two tanks.

Pull is so much better than push for trash encounters. Stealth and cc blow away friendly leap (seriously, who uses this!) Don't get me wrong, these abilities are awesome in PvP, but in PvE I seldom if ever use them.

As for leap, storm, speed: they are the gap closers. We all get one, they have pluses and minuses.
Juggs have the best CD's for tanking. Your friendly leap reduces dmg taken by 20%, you should be useing it on stuff like the person who gets targeted with the lasers on TFB Kephass.

Juggs are the hardest tank to play, yet, the most rewarding. They have the best overall mitigation and CD's of any of the classes.

SgtKlavier's Avatar


SgtKlavier
10.04.2012 , 08:55 PM | #56
Quote:
Juggs have the best CD's for tanking. Your friendly leap reduces dmg taken by 20%, you should be useing it on stuff like the person who gets targeted with the lasers on TFB Kephass.

Juggs are the hardest tank to play, yet, the most rewarding. They have the best overall mitigation and CD's of any of the classes.
My understanding was that assassins have those things you just said (best CDs, hardest, but best when played well). Do you have evidence favoring juggs?

BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
10.05.2012 , 06:27 AM | #57
I take issue with these two things.

Quote: Originally Posted by MrGreaterGood View Post
Juggs achieve this stat with just standard gearing, whereas an example of an Assassin tank, they need to regularly use an ability called Dark Ward which costs force to keep their shield chance about 50%. I have a sin tank, even with the campaign set bonus my Shield chance is as 40% without DW while Defense is 35 and absorption is 60. A sin that has 35/60/60 is pretty solid from my experience, and the Juggernauts when Min/max can achieve this same stat base.
My shadow is sitting at 28/ 50/ 60 full campaign gear (with rakata fort stim) with the correct mods, enhancements (save for one, need to replace a Vigilant Enhancement with a Bulwark) and augmented (9 defense, 4 shield 1 absorb) and mathematically having 28/ 70 (with KW)/ 60 is better than being 35/60/60, especially with the DR on Defense being higher than the DR on Shield

Quote: Originally Posted by MrGreaterGood View Post
Sin HP Min Max 25-26k
My sin's HP min-maxed is 24k. with the stim + trooper buff when specced into Mental Fortitude/ Shroud of Darkness and 23.6k when I replace those three points with Expertise/ Electric Execution.
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Hatstandard's Avatar


Hatstandard
10.05.2012 , 12:26 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Jholiday View Post
OP title is weak and non specific , they both have their pros.

Jugg;
Higher Mitigation when geared properly.
Faster positioning and re-engaging of the boss through charge.
Better deffensive CD's
Armor Debuff on boss

Assasin:
Higher HP helps against internal damage
Force speed helps to proactively more to where the boss will be.
Ability to cloak out of certain boss effects
CC ability (Best of the Inquisitor attributes IMO)
Pull-2nd best of the inquisitor abilities

PT:

Huge Damage
Aoe Threat
Pull

Other than that I think if anyone is @ a disadvantage its PT's
oooo nice post jholiday. I want to try

Jugg;
some mitigation, sometimes I think right?
slowest reposting, useless leep
uhhh cooldowns. there are a few but they are garbage. blade something? force something else? it lowers ur threat and causes ur party to wipe
worst tank
good dps
looks like classical mmo tank type with good outfit

Assasin:
Highest mitigation but least tanky
force speed is kind of bad compared to leaps
no defensive cooldowns except for a debuff
unreliable pull, good ranged damage
good aoe threat generation
best tank but usually about as bad as jug tank
using cloak machine is hilarious for wiping your party during boss
outfits look to girly

PT:
short Damage rotation
Aoe Threat sometimes
Pull
medium mitigation but better than juggernaut or assassin
boba fett class
ranged blaster for reposting
fast click speed
least likely to be worst tank

In the end you can tank any content with any of the tanks. Yes the juggernaut is much worse than the other 2 but he is still good enough most of the time if he is played by a really good player. The thing that slows down the juggernaut is there are fewer really good players than one would like. There are a lot of crappy juggernaut tanks that are pretty borderline that are played by people who think they are good though. Unless the situation gets tricky cross ur fingers and hope it's enough.

powertech is easiest tank and since all tanks are good enough that means he is usually best tank.

Assassin is the best tank but that almost never happens. Sometimes he is the worst tank no matter what like on the foreman that crushes dudes.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
10.05.2012 , 03:41 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Hatstandard View Post
oooo nice post jholiday. I want to try

Jugg;
1. some mitigation, sometimes I think right?
2. slowest reposting, useless leep
3. uhhh cooldowns. there are a few but they are garbage. blade something? force something else? it lowers ur threat and causes ur party to wipe
worst tank
good dps
looks like classical mmo tank type with good outfit

In the end you can tank any content with any of the tanks. Yes the juggernaut is much worse than the other 2 but he is still good enough most of the time if he is played by a really good player. The thing that slows down the juggernaut is there are fewer really good players than one would like. There are a lot of crappy juggernaut tanks that are pretty borderline that are played by people who think they are good though. Unless the situation gets tricky cross ur fingers and hope it's enough.

powertech is easiest tank and since all tanks are good enough that means he is usually best tank.

Assassin is the best tank but that almost never happens. Sometimes he is the worst tank no matter what like on the foreman that crushes dudes.
I numbered the points you made regarding the 3 tank ACs and have some comments to add:
Juggernauts
1. Jugg mitigation - lots of defense but chance of shielding is very low compared to Assassins
2. Leap - hardly useless if you use it correctly
3. Defensive Cooldowns - there are some good ones actually ( but they have a ridiculous cd time, 90 seconds, 120 seconds ) such as Invincible, Saber Ward, Endure Pain.

Overall I'd say that Assassins have the best active survivability - their defensive cooldowns are boss - but that Juggernauts have a higher passive survivability. The only issue is that if you're doing HM EC or HM TfB you're not newb enough to be only relying on passive mitigation, so the Assassin has a clear advantage. The only advantage I can think of that a Jug has compared to a Tanksassin is that Jugs have more abilities that raise their threat - seriously, anyone who can't hold threat as a Jug is really really really bad.

P.S: Enraged Defense? The ability that causes you to lose aggro? That's meant to help with tank swaps or solo play, it's not something any player with half a brain would misuse and cause a wipe with.
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BlznSmri's Avatar


BlznSmri
10.05.2012 , 05:42 PM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
The only advantage I can think of that a Jug has compared to a Tanksassin is that Jugs have more abilities that raise their threat - seriously, anyone who can't hold threat as a Jug is really really really bad.
Parses show that on average Juggs/ Guardians generate less DPS and Threat than both Shadows/ Sins and PTs/ Vanguards, and usually have to cycle a taunt or two in their rotations to maintain throughout certain fights.

That said, pretty much any well-played and well-geared Sentinel/ Mara can pull off any tank that doesn't cycle taunts in their rotations or guard them (sometimes, they'll even pull with the guard).
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