Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

22 Special


PlagaNerezza's Avatar


PlagaNerezza
10.03.2012 , 02:24 PM | #1
Greetings Assassins

I am posting a new build to test out I've dubbed the 22 Special

It may need some tuning, but the foundation is a 2/17/22 build. With the massive amount of Smash AOE damage coming out since 1.4 I have been wondering if I could use the 2 AOE dmg reductions together and turn the tables. The build provides DoT based damage to supplement and pressure the opponent with the improved maul damage, while keeping the chain shock effectiveness and making stealthing and returning more problematic.

The spec gives you a 45% AOE damage reduction. If Dark Embrace is up you get another 25% damage reduction. You have whirlwind on instant cast, deathmark and added melee bonus damage should be up with shock which should improve the critical hits of maul with duplicity.

You'll be running in lightning charge and DoTing your opponents with a deathmark on them adding in crushing darkness when you melee proc's the instant cast. There's 2 points in charge mastery to increase the damage of your lightning DoT. I didn't take parasitism yet. I am considering it depending on how the force management goes.

The build I am testing this week. i will report on its effectiveness. I hope to post a few videos.
"At last we will have our revenge" -Darth Maul
▄▄▄▄▄▄▼▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄

RankorSSGS's Avatar


RankorSSGS
10.03.2012 , 03:05 PM | #2
Not quite sure where you get 45% AOE reduction from. Corrupted flesh is periodic damage reduction, not AOE. I have to be honest, although I have not tried it, on paper it just looks like a gimped Arika. I do look foward to your videos of the spec, maybe theres something I'm missing.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#20...MckZZfMbRrMz.2

While we are at it, this was a madness darkness hybrid that I came up with. Have not played it yet, because honestly even I'm still trying to determine if it's viable. I would run this with lightning charge, and use the 2 piece set bonuses from survivor and force master gear, giving me a 20 sec cd on spike, and guaranteed heals from crushing darkness. The idea behind it was kind of a madness with more utility, I gain some dots, but keep pull and out of stealth spike. Darkness's 30& force regen should take care of any force issues, as even as full Madness i never had any real management troubles. If your spec testing anyway, maybe try this out as well.
Vesharia, Zannáh, Xeshara Retired due to broken class
Jetii'ka - Combat/Focus Bloodfrenzie - Carnage/Rage
Pot5/Bastion

cycao's Avatar


cycao
10.03.2012 , 08:03 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by RankorSSGS View Post
Not quite sure where you get 45% AOE reduction from. Corrupted flesh is periodic damage reduction, not AOE. I have to be honest, although I have not tried it, on paper it just looks like a gimped Arika. I do look foward to your videos of the spec, maybe theres something I'm missing.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#20...MckZZfMbRrMz.2

While we are at it, this was a madness darkness hybrid that I came up with. Have not played it yet, because honestly even I'm still trying to determine if it's viable. I would run this with lightning charge, and use the 2 piece set bonuses from survivor and force master gear, giving me a 20 sec cd on spike, and guaranteed heals from crushing darkness. The idea behind it was kind of a madness with more utility, I gain some dots, but keep pull and out of stealth spike. Darkness's 30& force regen should take care of any force issues, as even as full Madness i never had any real management troubles. If your spec testing anyway, maybe try this out as well.
imo that spec will not perform as well as the normal cookie cutter build that most assassins are running. You will have poor force management, poor survivability as missing out on some of the better boosts to your self healing that talents further up in madness has to offer.

The spec that I am yet to try out is this its what I will run as soon as I get time to test it. You can switch out fade and deceptive power and put them in saber conduit but I ran a similar hybrid and it did fairly well. Also its a simple rotation thrash, shock and maul deathfield and the force management is quite good.

I still love madness and think it performs great once you get use to it but when I get bored I run that hybrid.

PlagaNerezza's Avatar


PlagaNerezza
10.04.2012 , 10:58 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
imo that spec will not perform as well as the normal cookie cutter build that most assassins are running. You will have poor force management, poor survivability as missing out on some of the better boosts to your self healing that talents further up in madness has to offer.

The spec that I am yet to try out is this its what I will run as soon as I get time to test it. You can switch out fade and deceptive power and put them in saber conduit but I ran a similar hybrid and it did fairly well. Also its a simple rotation thrash, shock and maul deathfield and the force management is quite good.

I still love madness and think it performs great once you get use to it but when I get bored I run that hybrid.
So I played it. The DPS is ok. At times the damage spikes hard. However, the survivability is lower and a straight deception build provides I think a lot more single target damage. The AOE reduction wasn't their as you stated more than deception. I missed that. Maybe if I was better at DoTing it would be more effective. I tried getting around and marking up targets.

Force management wasn't an issue. Infact, no build I am in is truly having that issue if you have blackout/stealth now with dark embrace you really are able to quickly rebuild your force and resume DPS.
"At last we will have our revenge" -Darth Maul
▄▄▄▄▄▄▼▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄

cycao's Avatar


cycao
10.04.2012 , 12:38 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by PlagaNerezza View Post
So I played it. The DPS is ok. At times the damage spikes hard. However, the survivability is lower and a straight deception build provides I think a lot more single target damage. The AOE reduction wasn't their as you stated more than deception. I missed that. Maybe if I was better at DoTing it would be more effective. I tried getting around and marking up targets.

Force management wasn't an issue. Infact, no build I am in is truly having that issue if you have blackout/stealth now with dark embrace you really are able to quickly rebuild your force and resume DPS.
Woah I never said anything about AoE damage Anways I wont be able to play until my mouse gets replaced which will be sometime but I still want to try it out. I just hate giving up my madness I love that tree to much.

Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
10.05.2012 , 06:40 AM | #6
I like the direction this thread is going. But I think many of you are sacrificing too much damage for defensive talents that are nice, but are not going to give a full return on your investment.

There are two hybrid specs that I highly recommend for pvp. The first is a version of the Arika build but I like to call Mad Maul. Its Madness spec but still trying to exploit as much Maul as possible as it is our new hardest attack. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bIbszMskZfhbRkZc.2 With this spec you basically play the Madness rotation, keep your Deathmarks up and keep your Discharge dot up for Raze procs and UK. When exploit weakness procs get in there for your 5k-6k crits. Those hard hitting Mauls mixed in with DF and Raze is just nasty. Before 1.4 this spec put out a good amount of damage but sacrificed alot of healing through dots and a 30m dot which also stunned. But with the new Darkswell talent you got 12 seconds of about 50% damage mitigation (24 seconds if you vanish and reset Blackout) which is plenty of time to get your crit on.

The next Hybrid spec that does great is Dark Maul. Again taking advantage of the defense and utility of the Darkness tree while taking advantage of the hard hitting Maul. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bIbszMskZfRbRkZc.2 The idea behind this spec is taking advantage of the increased force regen to make up for the high cost of Maul. The premise behind this spec is all about Maul spam even when Exploit Weakness is not procd. If you just use Saber Strike and Maul, you will do about 100-200 more dps than if you just Thrashed and Shocked on Energized procs. So the idea is not to spam Thrash and Shock and only Maul on Exploit Weakness. You always Maul/Saber Stike. Only when you cannot get behind your opponent you will use Thrash/Shock. You get all the utility out of the Darkness tree, you get insane survivability through Dark Charge and the new Darkswell aswell as sick opening dps (remember that 24 seconds I mentioned above?) Ive parsed way over 2000 dps during the openers with this spec. When you are not taking advantage of Dark Embrace you can still do pretty good damage with Thrash/Shock and Maul when you can.

PlagaNerezza's Avatar


PlagaNerezza
10.05.2012 , 02:23 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Xethis View Post
I like the direction this thread is going. But I think many of you are sacrificing too much damage for defensive talents that are nice, but are not going to give a full return on your investment.

There are two hybrid specs that I highly recommend for pvp. The first is a version of the Arika build but I like to call Mad Maul. Its Madness spec but still trying to exploit as much Maul as possible as it is our new hardest attack. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200ZfRbRzZcMfRrrkbM.2 With this spec you basically play the Madness rotation, keep your Deathmarks up and keep your Discharge dot up for Raze procs and UK. When exploit weakness procs get in there for your 5k-6k crits. Those hard hitting Mauls mixed in with DF and Raze is just nasty. Before 1.4 this spec put out a good amount of damage but sacrificed alot of healing through dots and a 30m dot which also stunned. But with the new Darkswell talent you got 12 seconds of about 50% damage mitigation (24 seconds if you vanish and reset Blackout) which is plenty of time to get your crit on.

The next Hybrid spec that does great is Dark Maul. Again taking advantage of the defense and utility of the Darkness tree while taking advantage of the hard hitting Maul. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bIbszMskZfRbRkZc.2 The idea behind this spec is taking advantage of the increased force regen to make up for the high cost of Maul. The premise behind this spec is all about Maul spam even when Exploit Weakness is not procd. If you just use Saber Strike and Maul, you will do about 100-200 more dps than if you just Thrashed and Shocked on Energized procs. So the idea is not to spam Thrash and Shock and only Maul on Exploit Weakness. You always Maul/Saber Stike. Only when you cannot get behind your opponent you will use Thrash/Shock. You get all the utility out of the Darkness tree, you get insane survivability through Dark Charge and the new Darkswell aswell as sick opening dps (remember that 24 seconds I mentioned above?) Ive parsed way over 2000 dps during the openers with this spec. When you are not taking advantage of Dark Embrace you can still do pretty good damage with Thrash/Shock and Maul when you can.
I run the Dark Maul Build but I think you have to tune your build slightly because your build spec has problems if you are running surging charge. Energize doesn't work on surging charge. I run a 23/11/7 build that uses darkswell as opposed to torment to help offset energy management with the 25% 6sec. damage reduction. I run dark charge on that build. That has improved my DPS to about 300-400k when it normally ranged 225-300k in most matches.

I am not sure why you'd take thrashing blades over lightning reflexes. You don't have voltaic slash, barely anyone uses lacerate and thrash is almost a throw away to me in pvp. I am interested in induction as a measurement case. Does the stack make the critical maul dmg go to 60% with 2 stacks or are they only talking about the shock cost? It might be worth carrying if you got that sort of edge

I am going to toss the 22 Special in the river with the dead bodies that was anyone who tried the build. Lets call this new build the "Dark Lightning"

How it works: Running Lightning Charge you get the best of Darkness without running dark charge and a 50% armor bump. Eye of the storm should stack with Insulation while in lightning charge. Discharge is now a single target DoT.

You keep the improved maul. You get death field to heal you. You get Chain Shock. You get spike out of stealth. There is some play in the build to take Dark Embrace if energy management is an issue to use stealth to bump the energy.

You keep force pull. You run a stance that has more melee damage. Lets see how this build plays tonight/tomorrow. If its good I'll make a video. If it sucks I'll be the first to admit it. If you want to give it a try please do so.
"At last we will have our revenge" -Darth Maul
▄▄▄▄▄▄▼▄ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄

Dierdrea's Avatar


Dierdrea
10.06.2012 , 12:50 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Xethis View Post
I like the direction this thread is going. But I think many of you are sacrificing too much damage for defensive talents that are nice, but are not going to give a full return on your investment.

There are two hybrid specs that I highly recommend for pvp. The first is a version of the Arika build but I like to call Mad Maul. Its Madness spec but still trying to exploit as much Maul as possible as it is our new hardest attack. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200ZfRbRzZcMfRrrkbM.2 With this spec you basically play the Madness rotation, keep your Deathmarks up and keep your Discharge dot up for Raze procs and UK. When exploit weakness procs get in there for your 5k-6k crits. Those hard hitting Mauls mixed in with DF and Raze is just nasty. Before 1.4 this spec put out a good amount of damage but sacrificed alot of healing through dots and a 30m dot which also stunned. But with the new Darkswell talent you got 12 seconds of about 50% damage mitigation (24 seconds if you vanish and reset Blackout) which is plenty of time to get your crit on.

The next Hybrid spec that does great is Dark Maul. Again taking advantage of the defense and utility of the Darkness tree while taking advantage of the hard hitting Maul. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bIbszMskZfRbRkZc.2 The idea behind this spec is taking advantage of the increased force regen to make up for the high cost of Maul. The premise behind this spec is all about Maul spam even when Exploit Weakness is not procd. If you just use Saber Strike and Maul, you will do about 100-200 more dps than if you just Thrashed and Shocked on Energized procs. So the idea is not to spam Thrash and Shock and only Maul on Exploit Weakness. You always Maul/Saber Stike. Only when you cannot get behind your opponent you will use Thrash/Shock. You get all the utility out of the Darkness tree, you get insane survivability through Dark Charge and the new Darkswell aswell as sick opening dps (remember that 24 seconds I mentioned above?) Ive parsed way over 2000 dps during the openers with this spec. When you are not taking advantage of Dark Embrace you can still do pretty good damage with Thrash/Shock and Maul when you can.
Keep in mind induction doesn't work unless you run surging charges. The madness/deception and dark/decep builds here have an inherent inconsistency in it. I guess you could switch charges...but yea i would rather not...

Edit: After testing I stand corrected, the 30% maul critical damage applies regardless of charge.

Xethis's Avatar


Xethis
10.06.2012 , 09:16 AM | #9
Guys you are missing everything. Dark Maul is designed to only be run in Dark Charge, the only reason that Surging Charge was grabbed was to get Induction for the 30% crit damage bonus on Maul because this is your primary attack. If you are not in Surging Charge then there will be no stacks of Induction, the only reason the talent was grabbed was for the 30% crit modifier to Maul. 23-11-7 is a waste because you are not even exploiting your best attack with max force regen. Darth Maul only works because of the new Darkswell talent. The 12 seconds of increased force regen every time you come out of stealth. Why did I take Thrashing Blades, that is a no brainer. I did not take any defensive talents out of the Darkness tree. Basically everything out of the Darkness tree was for utility while running Dark Charge.

One last time, I don't give two cents about the stacks of Induction or the Surging Charge talent. I run Dark Charge for the damage mitigation and the heals. If you read my post I broke down exactly why I took the talents I did and even parsed the damage potential of a Maul spam opener. I don't know why so many people got to discredit everything I say and try to educate me on my spec when they have not even ever tried it. I am trying to help YOU do better in wz's. If you are completely happy doing less than the AC can do then just stay with what you got. But last I checked there is no spec that can pump out over 2k dps during the opener. If you do disagree pls bring some solid evidence and facts from actually trying the spec. Don't just read a couple of the talents and claim there is no synergy.

The spec is called Dark Maul, Darkness tree, Dark Charge all while exploiting the Maul ability. Dark Maul. Not, Dark Surging Charge To Get Induction Stacks For No Reason.

Dierdrea's Avatar


Dierdrea
10.06.2012 , 02:20 PM | #10
I am sorry if I am misunderstanding this, I was told that the 30% maul damage did not work unless you were in surging charge and that the tooltip was wrong. This may well be an error on my part. Will run some tests.