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Same gender relationships clarifications?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender relationships clarifications?
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Captain_Zone's Avatar


Captain_Zone
10.04.2012 , 10:09 AM | #2121
In the whole "New vs. Existing" debate as far as enabling SGRs, it would be easier and more cost effective to bring in the Character, NPC, and Companion VAs and record new dialogue than it would for them to create all new characters, bring in new VAs, and write all new SGR storylines. Also, I don't think anyone here wants to wait til level 50+ for their SGRs to appear. That would make no sense whatsoever, from a storyline standpoint.
. OPOD
Shivalka: Darth Baras is quite large, isn't he?
Joran Karn: You, my dear Sith, have just mastered the art of understatement.

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
10.04.2012 , 10:15 AM | #2122
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
I am assuming the vast majority of gamers is neither intersted in same gender romances, nor has a problem with their existance... Of course I have no hard evidence for this.
No, I mean, the people who want these romances wouldn't necessarily be happy with that.

Just off the top of my head:

1) "New characters" means we'd probably have to wait for an expansion...which could be years.
2) "New characters" also means you'd have to wait for lvl 50....or lvl 55 or whatever the cap would be when this expansion comes out.
3) Having the new characters shared amongst all classes is something I've seen people in this thread frown at. I believe it's seen as unfair considering each class has it's own OGRA for both genders currently (and some have multiple options).
4) When you limit the characters to 'gay, straight only' there will be players unhappy that they can't romance character X with their toon b/c of arbitrary gender restrictions...this would include people who do OGRA if they would ever make gay-only characters.
Node guarder

losdia's Avatar


losdia
10.04.2012 , 10:20 AM | #2123
Hey, could everyone try to keep the other SGR thread over in general discussion going? I think one of the better tactics we can use to try to get an answer out of BW is to keep the mods swamped trying to keep that troll bait clean.

Remember, don't engage the trolls and haters, just flag and ignore. /nudge /nudge
"Say, Mike... Did we just do something horribly wrong?"
"Yeah, I think so."
-MST3K, Invasion USA

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
10.04.2012 , 10:33 AM | #2124
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
No, I mean, the people who want these romances wouldn't necessarily be happy with that.

Just off the top of my head:

1) "New characters" means we'd probably have to wait for an expansion...which could be years.
2) "New characters" also means you'd have to wait for lvl 50....or lvl 55 or whatever the cap would be when this expansion comes out.
3) Having the new characters shared amongst all classes is something I've seen people in this thread frown at. I believe it's seen as unfair considering each class has it's own OGRA for both genders currently (and some have multiple options).
4) When you limit the characters to 'gay, straight only' there will be players unhappy that they can't romance character X with their toon b/c of arbitrary gender restrictions...this would include people who do OGRA if they would ever make gay-only characters.
reagarding 1) Well, that's just the way it is...
2) Not necessarily. A new character can be introduced at all kinds of points. New characters in Mass Effect don't require you to be particularly powerful either... They are usually introduced at a point early in the storyline.
3) That characters are shared between class is the norm in Bioware games. SW:TOR is an exception.
4) That's no different than in other Bioware games. Leliana is a romance option to both men and women, Morrigan isn't. It's one thing to make same gender romances at all, it's another to make it so that the gender doesn't matter at all to all companions anymore. If here are new options for straight players as well, there is no reason to complain about gay options. If only gay options were added, that would cause trouble, even if the same characters are already straight options.

I consider it a given that eventually new companions will be added, though I have no idea in what shape and way of course. It wouldn't be a bad thing if some of them were liked their own gender.
Ah, yes. "Reapers."

Ayslinn_Iduviel's Avatar


Ayslinn_Iduviel
10.04.2012 , 10:47 AM | #2125
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
Companions are an integral part of any Bioware game. It is not unusual for Bioware to add companions retroactively to any game, and since this is a game that costs mostly fees (yet), I don't find it so unlikely. A typical Bioware shot in the knee was of course the 0-day add on for Mass Effect 3, containing one character which was important to the player's view on the storyline. Since I bought a steel book special version for 80 it was part of my game, but it was still not ideal that you had to think of manually update the game. It took me hours to get Mass Effect 3 installed and updated with all add-ons. That's not what I buy a steel book edition for.

I don't know what's going on Bioware, but I suppose they make their decesions based on economic projections. A 'whiner' is not just a 'whiner' but an unhappy customer - or at least a customer that could be more happy with their product. The question is, whether it is worth making a particular group of customers happy, because it's obviously impossible to give everyone what they want with the limited resources they have. But consider that a new companion is a new companion to everyone. Whereas a new romance option that suits the sexuality of a minority affects only a relatively small group of customers.

New to Bioware is that the companions depend on your class choice. That is in part due to the fact that in a single player game you can only make one class choice, whereas in an MMOG all class choices are represented at all time and it's of vital importance to keep the experience of different classes different. Still I think in this regard Bioware has to go back at least a bit to the roots. Yes, it is a lot of work, because unlike Mass Effect, there isn't just male and female Shepard, the dialogues would have to be a lot more different based on the classes.

They won't add more companions for that singular purpose, but I am pretty certain that eventually they will add more companions. The audience - and not just those interested in same gender romance story arcs - simply expects it.
It's a good point, but i don't think its apply to SWTOR situation: From Ashes was material stripped from the original game to put it in ad-hoc DLC day one (and i will stop here to not derail the topic), and we don't have any clues about SGR companions ready to go and put in a box to wait the next expansion as SGR options (or at least, I don't know anything about that); also i think it will be a lot more difficult and time consuming to create a character ex-novo, with a new voice actor, a new personality and story, integrate he/she inside the game (with, for example, affection gains from convos), and etc than making viable the existing ones. I'm not saying i wouldn't like the idea of entirely new companions available (sgr or not sgr options), but i think that's a very remote possibility. Sadly. :S

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
10.04.2012 , 10:50 AM | #2126
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
2) Not necessarily. A new character can be introduced at all kinds of points. New characters in Mass Effect don't require you to be particularly powerful either...
I don't see how, considering the new characters would be introduced with the new content and it would require you to be at a certain level to complete.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
3) That characters are shared between class is the norm in Bioware games. SW:TOR is an exception.
In the other games each class also share the same story. Yes, SWTOR is the exception but we are discussing SWTOR. It has set a level of expectation.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
4) That's no different than in other Bioware games.
See DA2.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
Leliana is a romance option to both men and women, Morrigan isn't. It's one thing to make same gender romances at all, it's another to make it so that the gender doesn't matter at all to all companions anymore.
Nothing else matters to companions when romancing the PC so I don't see why gender should be different (species, appearance, even morality can be overcome with gifts). Plus, it could still matter (i.e., result in different dialogs) without limiting romance choice based only on gender.

Regardless, the point is that there will be unhappy people if options are limited. Just from reading this thread over the past half of a year, the posters who desire SGRA content have specific companions in mind for their toons and will not necessarily be happy with any old SGRA option.

It's like, "Yeah, I know your female Smuggler wanted Risha, but too bad...you get Akaavi and you should be happy you got something."
Node guarder

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
10.04.2012 , 11:17 AM | #2127
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
I don't see how, considering the new characters would be introduced with the new content and it would require you to be at a certain level to complete.

In the other games each class also share the same story. Yes, SWTOR is the exception but we are discussing SWTOR. It has set a level of expectation.

See DA2.

Nothing else matters to companions when romancing the PC so I don't see why gender should be different (species, appearance, even morality can be overcome with gifts). Plus, it could still matter (i.e., result in different dialogs) without limiting romance choice based only on gender.

Regardless, the point is that there will be unhappy people if options are limited. Just from reading this thread over the past half of a year, the posters who desire SGRA content have specific companions in mind for their toons and will not necessarily be happy with any old SGRA option.

It's like, "Yeah, I know your female Smuggler wanted Risha, but too bad...you get Akaavi and you should be happy you got something."
Most characters are not all too deeply involved in the class story anyway, apart from the way you pick them up. The existing characters were never designed with the intent to use them for more than one class, and yet I don't see a reason why Tharan for example would work for all republic classes. That the class story is different for all classes is therefore irrelevant, even though it will cause design overhead for integrating them, but that's inevitable either way. If you create different characters for every single class, that will cause considerably more overhead and consequently yield less characters becoming available.

When it comes to sexuality the gender matters a lot. Some people are simple not gay. Of course in some cases we'd like them to be, but the game would be shale if all companions would simply be whatever we want them to be. DA2 is not a particularly good Bioware game - I don't find it bad either, but it's certainly not par with Dragon Age: Origins are the Mass Effect series.
Ah, yes. "Reapers."

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
10.04.2012 , 11:23 AM | #2128
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
Most characters are not all too deeply involved in the class story anyway, apart from the way you pick them up. The existing characters were never designed with the intent to use them for more than one class, and yet I don't see a reason why Tharan for example would work for all republic classes. That the class story is different for all classes is therefore irrelevant, even though it will cause design overhead for integrating them, but that's inevitable either way. If you create different characters for every single class, that will cause considerably more overhead and consequently yield less characters becoming available.
They could do it, but my point is still that people won't necessarily be happy with it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
When it comes to sexuality the gender matters a lot. Some people are simple not gay. Of course in some cases we'd like them to be, but the game would be shale if all companions would simply be whatever we want them to be. DA2 is not a particularly good Bioware game - I don't find it bad either, but it's certainly not par with Dragon Age: Origins are the Mass Effect series.
And some people simply won't be attracted to a different species or someone who has different morals form them, but the game in it's current state doesn't reflect this. These things also matter a lot.

I'm not commenting on how good/bad DA2 was...I don't think it matters here.

From what we know now, they won't make all romance companions available to both genders and all I'm saying is that people will be unhappy when it comes time to find out who's available (and not). This is partly the reason I went ahead and leveled my toons in spite of not having SGRA yet...I honestly don't think they'll make any characters available that I'd be interested in anyway so I don't see the point of waiting.
Node guarder

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
10.04.2012 , 11:47 AM | #2129
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
I'm not commenting on how good/bad DA2 was...I don't think it matters here.
Indeed. I don't think whatever they did with DA2 does not matter at all - or, only as example how you should not do it. Therefore I think your bringing it into the discussion was pointless in the first place. It's irrelevant how romance was handled there.

You see, the trick is not to give people what they say they want. That's impossible and in many wouldn't turn out as they think they would. So now you can screw Kira. What changes it? Nothing, it's still the same Kira and the game doesn't change besides a few minutes of dialogue. It's not the same as when it becomes part of the process of rising in level and exploring the galaxy. The trick is to give people what they would like.

The primary reason I can imagine why people would be averse to companions that don't belong to a particular class is that people like things for themselves in the first place, not for everyone else. Like it was a property and they don't wish to share it. Like the experience of a companion character becomes more enjoyable the less players are able to share it. I don't think that's the case, though. People would enjoy it or not, regardless who else can do the same.
Ah, yes. "Reapers."

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
10.04.2012 , 11:59 AM | #2130
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post

And some people simply won't be attracted to a different species or someone who has different morals form them, but the game in it's current state doesn't reflect this. These things also matter a lot.

I'm not commenting on how good/bad DA2 was...I don't think it matters here.7
Forcing a label to NPCs forheads doesn't make them "deeper" or more "realistic". It's really not needed. Some friends of mine saw Merrill as a lesbian. They never romanced her with the dude Hawke. Some others saw Merrill as straight. There was no contradiction. The romance would play out nicely everytime.
Locking her out from romance for either gender, would have added nothing to her character. That just would have sucked for a lot of players. If what you see on youtube, what you read on forums, or another playthrough disrupts your current game, that is your failure.

The way I see it, DA2 had many flaws, but its companions and their stories, their interactions were the best. Much better than DA:Origins, than ME, and from what I've seen so far, better than SWTOR.