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Healing Sage: 0% Alacrity?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Healing Sage: 0% Alacrity?
 

Krazy_Karl's Avatar


Krazy_Karl
10.03.2012 , 01:07 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by CitizenFry View Post
For an all itemlevel 61 geared character, you should have 570 points to divvy up among Accuracy, Alacrity, and Surge. Accuracy is obviously useless for a Sage. If you put 570 into surge, your surge value will be 80.11%. The first couple of blocks of 57 you move from Surge to Alacrity will give you almost 2% cast time reduction at the cost of only about 0.5% surge value. It does get steeper pretty quickly though, to where you're trading ~1.5% surge value for 1.5% cast time reduction when Surge = Alacrity and even worse when your alacrity is above your surge. At 570 Alacrity + 0 Surge, your cast time is reduced by 15.14% and your surge value is 51%.
Yeah, I noticed this when switching my implants/earpiece to the ones I have which carry the Alacrity instead of Surge. Since starting TFB HM there hasn't been an instance where an extra 2% quicker cast would have been "make it or break it" on a clear.

Not that the extra .5% Surge has either. But just in terms of getting the most "bank for my buck" when I am casting, I can see a tangible benefit from the Surge versus the Alacrity when watching my Healing Trance critical 3-4 times over its cast time.

Regards,
KK
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

CaptainApop's Avatar


CaptainApop
10.03.2012 , 01:08 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Krazy_Karl View Post
Thank you for providing an opinion veiled as fact and nothing else.

And the circumstances for the discussion are around Operations and PvE content at the highest possible gear level (min/maxed). Sages are not designed to be burst healers, nor should they attempt to play as such, especially in the most difficult content.

And if HM TFB is what you consider tuned tightly for min/maxed Campaign, I have had no problems healing any of the content. I just wanted to have a discussion regarding preference, playstyle, and opinions on how Alacrity has influenced players ability to heal.

Regards,
KK
Considering the hilariously steep DR curve on surge it's of pretty dubious usefulness past 75% (hence the SOFTcap). Alacrity at these points won't blow you off you're feet but it will increase you're short term hps potential.

You were right sure. Sages aren't burst healers. Neither are operatives and BH's aren't particularly good at it either.

Being able to heal faster is still of use.
"I bind kolto probes to Q, partially for the convenience but mostly for the irony"

Subterfuge legacy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd

schnopsnosn's Avatar


schnopsnosn
10.03.2012 , 01:08 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by CitizenFry View Post
For an all itemlevel 61 geared character, you should have 570 points to divvy up among Accuracy, Alacrity, and Surge. Accuracy is obviously useless for a Sage. If you put 570 into surge, your surge value will be 80.11%. The first couple of blocks of 57 you move from Surge to Alacrity will give you almost 2% cast time reduction at the cost of only about 0.5% surge value. It does get steeper pretty quickly though, to where you're trading ~1.5% surge value for 1.5% cast time reduction when Surge = Alacrity and even worse when your alacrity is above your surge. At 570 Alacrity + 0 Surge, your cast time is reduced by 15.14% and your surge value is 51%.
It's actually 627 available points to be precise

Krazy_Karl's Avatar


Krazy_Karl
10.03.2012 , 01:14 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainApop View Post
Considering the hilariously steep DR curve on surge it's of pretty dubious usefulness past 75% (hence the SOFTcap). Alacrity at these points won't blow you off you're feet but it will increase you're short term hps potential.

You were right sure. Sages aren't burst healers. Neither are operatives and BH's aren't particularly good at it either.

Being able to heal faster is still of use.
So losing 5% Surge because of the "softcap" provides what tangible benefit to a Sage? Healing faster is of what use? I have never run into an encounter in PvE/Ops (as a Sage) where I said to myself "just .1 more second and that person wouldn't have died" but then again, my mileage may vary compared to yours.

Basically, what I want to know is why do I need to be healing faster? (Honestly)

Regards,
KK
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
10.03.2012 , 01:18 PM | #15
This is an interesting point. I haven't tried re-gearing my Sage healer for no alacrity so I can't comment on it's effectiveness in ops. Currently in my 61 gear (haven't done HM TfB yet) I have about 9% cast time increase from alacrity with the rest in crit/surge. I modeled my gear targets based on the 1.3 BiS for a dps telekinetic sage with a few changes based on personal preference. This has done very well for me as an end-game healer.

On the other hand, I've been leveling a Sorcerer healer in my spare time (currently at level 47) and my skill tree is almost complete. Because mix/maxing prior to 50 is sort of pointless, I have no alarity on this toon at the moment. I have to say that the longer cast times really get on my nerves.

I suppose this is just a case of what I'm used to, but when I do reach 50 I plan on adding alacrity for my sorc healer to match what I have on my sage healer.

P.S. Off topic, sorry, but I deparately miss the 30m stun when fighting elite mobs 3 levels higher than me ...

xZarquon's Avatar


xZarquon
10.03.2012 , 01:24 PM | #16
One benefit for healing faster is when healing multiple targets. For example, comparing your innervate to someone with 10% alacrity, yours may heal for slightly more (depending on crits of course) but will take 0.3 seconds longer to cast. One could, for example, toss a sonic barrier on the same target (or another) or instant heal with resurgence any target, 0.3 seconds before you. This is also useful for heals like revivification or even dark infusion should you choose to use it.

@ itsmymillertime

Quote:
I would not do crit as with 2200 willpower your almost hitting the soft cap on crit, so more power/surge would give me more sustained healing like the op plays
The bonus crit given by willpower is completely separate from the DR curve given by crit, the "soft cap" you're discussing for crit is actually ~300 crit, regardless of your willpower. Whether you think having 42% crit is worth more than having an extra ~100 power (with 39% crit) or whatever numbers you think is another story, but willpower doesn't affect the soft cap for crit.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
10.03.2012 , 01:24 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Krazy_Karl View Post
So losing 5% Surge because of the "softcap" provides what tangible benefit to a Sage? Healing faster is of what use? I have never run into an encounter in PvE/Ops (as a Sage) where I said to myself "just .1 more second and that person wouldn't have died" but then again, my mileage may vary compared to yours.

Basically, what I want to know is why do I need to be healing faster? (Honestly)

Regards,
KK
I believe that both "no alacrity" and "some alacrity" are effective in end-game content. The only way you could get into trouble is try to stack too much alacrity and lose out on crit/power.

Now, I've seen this argument made for a dps sages -- that stacking any alacrity at all is of no benefit. But the SimC modeling showed that for a TK sage, (who has long cast time abilities), that the overall dps went up when adding alacrity.

I believe the same happens with healing. Only rejuvenate is instant. Every other cast is affected by alacrity, and your heals per second will go up because of it.

Will it make or break anything either way? I think not. But I do believe that my +9% cast time gives me more hps overall. Just sayin'

CitizenFry's Avatar


CitizenFry
10.03.2012 , 01:27 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by schnopsnosn View Post
It's actually 627 available points to be precise
57 for ear, 57 x2 for implants, 57 x7 for enhancements (head, chest, gloves, pants, boots, mainhand, offhand). Where are you getting that 11th 57 from? Or are you looking at 1x Champion Relic of Forbidding Secrets (WH power relic is better)
Crafting on The Ebon Hawk. PST/mail: Blayze (rep) / K'ron (imp)
Armoring: Commando 26, Reflex 26; Barrel: Patron 26
Mod: Weighted 26+26B, Deflecting 26 Enhancement: Bulwark 26, Battle 26, Finesse 26
Ear: Black Hole Mender's MK-2 Relay

Aurojiin's Avatar


Aurojiin
10.03.2012 , 01:44 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Krazy_Karl View Post
Thank you for providing an opinion veiled as fact and nothing else.
Thank you for demonstrating a complete misunderstanding of my point.

I'm not talking about burst healing at all, I'm talking about higher sustained healing. Having some alacrity allows you to execute single and multi-target rotations faster, meaning you will simply do more healing over time in a sustained casting situation.

This isn't an opinion, this is a mathematical fact.

Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I believe that both "no alacrity" and "some alacrity" are effective in end-game content. The only way you could get into trouble is try to stack too much alacrity and lose out on crit/power.
Alacrity doesn't trade with crit/power, but aside from that I agree with your post. The OP is mistakenly associating alacrity with "burst healing", but the point is that you simply cast more heals over time, and generally keep HT on cooldown more often.
Aisev -:- Seer Sage Si'ki -:- Darkness Assassin

CaptainApop's Avatar


CaptainApop
10.03.2012 , 01:49 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Krazy_Karl View Post
So losing 5% Surge because of the "softcap" provides what tangible benefit to a Sage? Healing faster is of what use? I have never run into an encounter in PvE/Ops (as a Sage) where I said to myself "just .1 more second and that person wouldn't have died" but then again, my mileage may vary compared to yours.

Basically, what I want to know is why do I need to be healing faster? (Honestly)

Regards,
KK
Slow reply, foruming mid ops.

I think you're focusing a bit too much on "I've done TfB hm with stacked surge so who cares". You don't need to be perfectly optimized to clear any content in this game currently. My guild clearing kephess hm last tier is proof enough of that I assure you.
On a secondary point we haven't seen what nightmare mode is going to look like so that argument presumably won't hold much water later.

The general arguments in favor of alacrity are an increase in idle time. It doesn't sound great but you need to think about it a bit.
1. More idle time amounts to extra GCDs over the course of the fight. Means one of two things, it either allows you to spam more within a certain time to top folk up or it gives you more time to manage your force. Which in turn lets you but out more healing over the fight.
2. More idle time allow YOU to be more mobile, more responsive, despite not being a member of the operative master race. This reduces the damage you take from aoe effects as a general rule.
3. If you have never in your raids ever ever eaten a tick to aoe damage to get a heal off or never find yourself ever in need of more healing output, even then you can throw out some damage so the boss dies quicker (preventative healing).

Now I'm sure you can see the benefits are considerably more ethereal. This is why no one touches it until they have a healthy amount of surge :l

Two final points. The reason people like Aurojin are a bit blunt is because this topic is launch-day OLD. Anything to be said about it has kind of already been said. Secondly that "regards" sign off thing is kind of annoying :L
You're on a forum, your sig serves that purpose. This isn't a letter :L
"I bind kolto probes to Q, partially for the convenience but mostly for the irony"

Subterfuge legacy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd