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A simple fix for PVP, why are more people not advocating this?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
A simple fix for PVP, why are more people not advocating this?

Jekan's Avatar


Jekan
10.03.2012 , 06:42 AM | #11
I think the OP's point has a lot of validity. For me another fix would be the weekly PvP quest. My thinking is that it should more closely mirror the daily quest. Win 9 or play 18. I know of several people in my guild who have the weekly on their quest log for weeks who PvP a lot.

I guess the closest analogy I can come up with is that fresh 50s who start PvPing (even in the new recruit gear), are suddenly the voice of every encounter that is "farm status". I know that if I pug, I'm probably going to to get facerolled by better geared players that have normal warzones on farm status. However, I still enjoy it, I still get commendations (while I prioritize objectives, I still try to shoot for the 8 medal cap) and when I do get to War Hero I'll be that much more prepared by facing these same opponents.

The growth experience gained from fighting in warzones is not only gear but also knowledge.

That said, I would agree with a tweak to the grind for WH.
Jekana - 55 Sniper(Eng/Leth) | T'vor - 50 Powertech (Shield) | Docfeelgood - 44 Sorc (Healer)
Jnx - 37 Gunslinger(SS)

I've heard there are worse snipers on the Bastion than me, but I don't believe it. I elevate being a scrub to a whole new level.
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Sweeet's Avatar


Sweeet
10.03.2012 , 06:47 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Kirothen View Post
Here is my issue with the geared players playing ranked. It is limited to a group of 8. I would put all my credits on the line to say that most full WH PvPers grinded their gear doing regulars either alone or with a select few friends. it is tough to find a full group of 8 outside of primtime (or sometimes during primetime) to queue up. Secondly, since there are limited groups that can scrape together 8 well geared players to be competitive, the queues are crazy long. Who wants to sit and wait when we can slowly have fun grinding out regular coms. I think the root of the problem is the fact that it is limited to a full premade 8 man team. My suggestion would be to not open it up to free solo queing (that would be a mess) but to allow 2 groups of 4 to be paired together. That would keep the integrity of the competition by forcing a 4 man team to queue and it would keep out the random solo recruit gear queuers. And just for reference I am a full WH sentinel with both Elite WH weapons at 76 valor.
It's not only that, I've recently found a good guild who regularly has over 8 people online all wanting to run Warzones, but running Ranked just isn't feasible as losing offers such a pitiful amount of Ranked commendations. You actually get more Ranked commendations from losing a normal Warzone, that doesn't even make a single bit of sense.

I agree that would be a good idea, but they absolutely need to raise the amount of Ranked commendations gained from partaking in Ranked Warzones or nobody will want to do them. Playing Ranked needs to be a feasible way of obtained WH gear, and more importantly in a reasonable amount of time. I can't see this game breaking 200k subs ever again unless they do so.

Sweeet's Avatar


Sweeet
10.03.2012 , 06:55 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Svii View Post
I agree with your intention but not your suggested solution based on gear. Like I tried to say, people can enter WZs in level 9 green gear and put on their augmented WH gear once inside and ruin the experience for the fresh 50s. It would work against it's intention.

Valor is the only constant that can be used for creating more equal teams. Valor level requires a certain amount of WZs played and commendations earned, there is no way to cheat with this stat. If you are Valor 70+, you should have pretty decent gear and PVP experience.

Pairing on skill is impossible, skill cannot be measured by gear rating nor Valor rank. Ranked WZs should be the competitive playing field between the top players. When it comes to dedicated and competitive PvP players, the grind will not matter for those that strive to be on the top.

Edit: I would like to see WH gear become slightly easier and streamlined to aquire, I'm not arguing that point
And I understand your intention unfortunately there is a serious flaw in doing it like this. Currently you can buy any PvP gear on your main, and with the introduction of Legacy gear it would be very easy to cheat the system. All you would have to do is buy a load of decent PvP gear for an alt, strip the mods and put them into Legacy gear, then send that gear to an alt with little to no Valour.

One fully BM/WH geared alt with little to no Valour tearing through people. So unless they do a major rework on who can buy what and what you can send to alts with Legacy gear, I can't see them ever doing this.

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
10.03.2012 , 07:01 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by KeeferE View Post
Another thought would be to lower the cost oh WH gear.. There are lots of people like me that don't have all that many hours to spend grinding out comms for gear.. Make it easier to get the gear then PvP will become more even and people will enjoy playing..
They don't need to do that if Ranked war zones encourages those who "have the time" to get WH gear to actually compete in ranked. Then suddenly, you don't need WH gear as bad if you don't have the time, because the unranked would then be filled with those who are probably more like you, or someone just passing through until they are ready for ranked.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
10.03.2012 , 07:05 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Sweeet View Post
The biggest issue is that losing a Normal Warzone will actually net you more Ranked Warzone commendations than losing a Ranked Warzone... Which is ridiculous, its no wonder all the premade WH groups are playing normal WZs... Not only do they get more Ranked Warzone commendations if they actually do lose, but the chances of them going up against a rookie pug and stomping them is greatly increased, giving them even more Ranked Warzone commendations for little effort. Since when is designing PVP to cater to this kind of behaviour good game design?
while I don't advocate Qing rateds to grind rwz comms (you don't belong in rated if you're not wh, imo), I'm pretty sure this statement is dead wrong. The max comms you can earn from any WZ is 140. 140/3 = 46.6ish. You would have to average less than 47 rated comms per loss while maximizing (winning) every reg WZ in which you Q in order to make farming reg wz's more efficient than rated WZs for accumulating rated comms.

so no. if rated comms are your goal, then rated WZs will almost certainly get you there faster (assuming the queues pop, but you can queue for both at the same time, so you don't lose any time by also queueing for rated).

no. the problem with sub wh ppl in Q for rated is as follows:
  1. rated rankings are an imperfect system, but they are designed to establish a pecking order. if you Q up for rated in half-assed gear (and few adrenals/med pacs since you're not wasting comms on them yet!), then you're handing the other team wins, thereby inflating their rating (granted, the more you lose, the less they gain). At the same time, you're killing your own rating, which (hopefully) is not an actual reflection of your skill but, in fact, reflects the lack of gear on your toon when you tanked your rating to farm comms.
  2. getting rolled, trolled, and spawn farmed is the least fun thing I can possibly think of. I don't even like it when my own team starts farming. grow up. have some honor. or be that little twerp on xb live. I'm for the former, personally.
meh
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

Svii's Avatar


Svii
10.03.2012 , 07:05 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Sweeet View Post
And I understand your intention unfortunately there is a serious flaw in doing it like this. Currently you can buy any PvP gear on your main, and with the introduction of Legacy gear it would be very easy to cheat the system. All you would have to do is buy a load of decent PvP gear for an alt, strip the mods and put them into Legacy gear, then send that gear to an alt with little to no Valour.

One fully BM/WH geared alt with little to no Valour tearing through people. So unless they do a major rework on who can buy what and what you can send to alts with Legacy gear, I can't see them ever doing this.
True! I always forget this twink loophole when discussing the issue haha A combo then with what's in your inventory

Svii - Sniper
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Sweeet's Avatar


Sweeet
10.03.2012 , 07:11 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Technohic View Post
They don't need to do that if Ranked war zones encourages those who "have the time" to get WH gear to actually compete in ranked. Then suddenly, you don't need WH gear as bad if you don't have the time, because the unranked would then be filled with those who are probably more like you, or someone just passing through until they are ready for ranked.
Exactly

stephenalandavie's Avatar


stephenalandavie
10.03.2012 , 07:26 AM | #18
The prices will be coming down for war hero soon as the next tier will be out.

Kirothen's Avatar


Kirothen
10.03.2012 , 07:28 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by stephenalandavie View Post
The prices will be coming down for war hero soon as the next tier will be out.
That just starts the cycle over again though unfortunately. The best will have the new tier while everyone else will be getting WH and the new tier geared people roll the lesser geared people.
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Converted Smash Monkey in denial

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Sweeet's Avatar


Sweeet
10.03.2012 , 07:32 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
while I don't advocate Qing rateds to grind rwz comms (you don't belong in rated if you're not wh, imo), I'm pretty sure this statement is dead wrong. The max comms you can earn from any WZ is 140. 140/3 = 46.6ish. You would have to average less than 47 rated comms per loss while maximizing (winning) every reg WZ in which you Q in order to make farming reg wz's more efficient than rated WZs for accumulating rated comms.

so no. if rated comms are your goal, then rated WZs will almost certainly get you there faster (assuming the queues pop, but you can queue for both at the same time, so you don't lose any time by also queueing for rated).

no. the problem with sub wh ppl in Q for rated is as follows:
  1. rated rankings are an imperfect system, but they are designed to establish a pecking order. if you Q up for rated in half-assed gear (and few adrenals/med pacs since you're not wasting comms on them yet!), then you're handing the other team wins, thereby inflating their rating (granted, the more you lose, the less they gain). At the same time, you're killing your own rating, which (hopefully) is not an actual reflection of your skill but, in fact, reflects the lack of gear on your toon when you tanked your rating to farm comms.
  2. getting rolled, trolled, and spawn farmed is the least fun thing I can possibly think of. I don't even like it when my own team starts farming. grow up. have some honor. or be that little twerp on xb live. I'm for the former, personally.
Currently losing a normal Warzone will net you anywhere between 40-100 commendations. I've been told losing a Ranked Warzone will get you 20-25 most of the time. What incentive is there to play a Ranked Warzone when you can get at least as much from losing a normal but actually have a chance at winning and not getting farmed?

1) That's actually the point in trying to steer everyone who wants to gear up past BM into Ranked, as it will make the match-ups fairer.

2) The under-geared teams may get steam-rolled a couple of times, but it shouldn't be an issue once the geared teams have rolled a few other teams as they will then start getting paired with other steam-rolling teams. Providing the ranking system is doing its job.