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Consular PvE low DPS and other issues?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Consular PvE low DPS and other issues?

Innocences's Avatar


Innocences
08.29.2012 , 10:11 PM | #1
Who here thinks the Shadow is nothing more than a merger DPS character? To me it's DPS is very much lacking in PvE. People claim it's burst DPS is so great and yet with all the stuns and knock backs you rarely get a full DPS burst on anything but a weak NPC. So what does the consular need? Shorter cool downs on sprint burst and force cloak? A low leveled, under geared, Scoundrel can do more DPS than my L50 Shadow can do. The scoundrel can do 4000+ damage and that's not even crit damage, where as I'm doing the same with crits and 60% black hole gear.

Now I'm talking to those shadows that PvE. Not PvP players owning nubs with high level PvP gear. So how does BW fix this class that's been so neglected for so long? I'm talking about mediocre DPS, ugly gear looks, we are required to spend twice as much to get the correct black hole stats and etc. Why are we so hated by BW and why has nothing been done? Rise up fellow shadows! Say something.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
08.30.2012 , 01:04 AM | #2
First off, if you're gonna start a thread about Shadows, it might be more appropriate to start the thread in the Shadow sub-forum and properly label the title (Shadows are not the only Consulars).

As to your claim, I would really have to agree. Infiltration does remarkably anemic damage, both in sustained and burst situations, and the highest I've seen Balance push is 1.6-1.7k DPS in full campaign (most Inf claims I've seen place it in the 1.1-1.3k range while a single claim has said he can reliably pull 1.4-1.5k). Balance is decent but noticeably below the top tier DPS I've seen pulled by Sentinels and Gunslingers (more than the 5% margin of performance the developers claim to have), but Infiltration, at its *best*, is still worse than it has any right to be considering the developers' claims.

As for PvP, I find it strange that the developers haven't noticed that neither Balance nor Infiltration are considered particularly good specs. The most prevalent PvP specs I see are full tank and tank hybrid specs, though I've heard of some people using a Balance hybrid as well. I'd be curious whether the developers have done any datamining concerning PvP spec choice (check the specs on Shadows currently with Expertise over a given quantity and over a given Valor rank and just look at the most prevalent specs; have 'em check the Power too to see how many of those same tankish-spec'd Shadows are actually wearing DPS gear to show that it's not simply a preponderance of tanks). It might be a little jarring for them to see exactly how little attention Infiltration and Balance get.
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SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
08.30.2012 , 01:26 AM | #3
Balance Shadows put out the highest DPS of any of the AC's that have been tested in SimC. Devs addressed infiltration in a Q&A a few weeks back. It's designed to be a hit and run spec. If you want sustained DPS, spec balance and learn to play.

wolfyrik's Avatar


wolfyrik
10.01.2012 , 06:41 PM | #4
I'm finding the shadow to be massively dissapointing. I'm sticking with it for now but it's really becoming tedious. Infiltrator is unbelievably bad, even the fix hasn't helped. shadow is basically a sub-par smuggler/IA, with no heals, no real benefits and all of the downsides, worsened. Oh and a nonsensical combination of weapon philosophy. Seriously, why is Shadow built around project? It makes no sense at all.
Force Pull is the skill that shadows should have but it's stuck high up only on the tanking tree. Speaking of skill trees, half of the shadows skills are lifted directly from the smuggler/IA central tree for melee damage but then spread out among all three Shadow skill trees? Why? If you're going to just copy paste you may as well leave it intact, in the middle tree where it works. Compare the Shadow to the Imperial Agent Operative. Playing operative you can readily switch roles mid battle. It's a versatile class with a wide array of skills that can be switched in anytime to turn the tide of battle for you and your team. The specc you choose gives you greater advantage in that area but doesn't cripple you from taking over other roles as necessary.
A shadow in comparison is worthless. Stuck in their role, with barely enough force recouperation to cover the role they're playing, never mind switching.
Go infiltration and entirely sacrifice whaty tiny amount of healing is available to the shadow, and say goodbye to tanking. Go balance or kinetic and stealth becomes virtually pointless. on the upside you can get rid of the bloody awful tharan cedrax, possibly the most hateful, unsuitable terrible, annoying companion in the game. which is saying something. Then of course you're not only stuck with having to use the bizarre and ludicrous Project, but you'll have to juggle about ten extra skills including the usually dreadful TT.

Shadow is the patchwork class. It's a hodge-podge failure of last-minute decisions and left-over ideas that weren't necessary for other classes but the devs felt they wanted to squeeze them in somewhere. So they squeezed them into the Shadow. Never mind that half of them don't work well together either technically, resource wise or even in the style of the archetype.
Even the consular gear is terrible, looking more often than not like it's been puked together. The arms don't match the torso, the legs to match the groin or waist and more often than not the textures seem low-quality compared to gear of other classes.

Since the patch there's just so many more problems, Shadow Strike doesn't work half the time (and yes for all the jerks, I am positioned behind the enemy), it just doesn't complete it's animation, no position warning so it doesn't seem like lag. Infiltration seems to run out force far quicker than before the patch too. I'd defintely say this class has issues. I just wish that my IA could defect to the republic. I don't want to have to play empire but I cant stand the smuggler companions or general design. That leaves me with the Shadow as my Republic Stealth class and if the miserable, tedious waste of time that was Quesh is anything to go by, it's only getting worse.

Karasuko's Avatar


Karasuko
10.01.2012 , 07:26 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Innocences View Post
Who here thinks the Shadow is nothing more than a merger DPS character? To me it's DPS is very much lacking in PvE. People claim it's burst DPS is so great and yet with all the stuns and knock backs you rarely get a full DPS burst on anything but a weak NPC. So what does the consular need? Shorter cool downs on sprint burst and force cloak? A low leveled, under geared, Scoundrel can do more DPS than my L50 Shadow can do. The scoundrel can do 4000+ damage and that's not even crit damage, where as I'm doing the same with crits and 60% black hole gear.

Now I'm talking to those shadows that PvE. Not PvP players owning nubs with high level PvP gear. So how does BW fix this class that's been so neglected for so long? I'm talking about mediocre DPS, ugly gear looks, we are required to spend twice as much to get the correct black hole stats and etc. Why are we so hated by BW and why has nothing been done? Rise up fellow shadows! Say something.
eeeerrrrr scoundrels hitting 4k? u mean fully geared gunslingers with adrenals + on use relic.

I'm happy with the damage I do on my shadow. Was running through some dailies the other day and was seeing frequent 6k shadow strikes, highest that i was paying attention too was a 6.9k on strong mob.
My project crits for 4-6k, with the "offhand " rock critting for upto 3k
Normal force breaches are between 4-6k crits.
Spammable 3-3.5k CS.
And spinning strike hitting upto 5.9k (weird our finisher does less than shadow strike) isn't shabby either.

Have yet to test out my damage in the new operation but i know for a fact that my dps will have gone up signifcantly..Those numbers wont really change much maybe lessen alittle, but my outliers will go up due to actually bothering to use my adrenal on CD.

With the changes that came in 1.4 our rotation is so much smoother, we ahve more force to spend and I very rarely find myself tapping out completely as the break stealth-->blackout-->vanish---> blackout gives me 24 secs of almost unlimited force.

Our gear is trashy looking but thats why theres modifiable gear.
Every class needs to spend alot more BH comms, I dont think a single spec gets 100% itemised gear. Ive spent about 400 BH comms on my JK,yeap thats right 8 pairs of boots!

So please check your facts before making a troll post like this please.

Karasuko's Avatar


Karasuko
10.01.2012 , 07:28 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by wolfyrik View Post
I Infiltration seems to run out force far quicker than before the patch too.
You are doing it wrong.

wolfyrik's Avatar


wolfyrik
10.02.2012 , 06:37 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Karasuko View Post
You are doing it wrong.
Thanks for this ever so insightful and helpful post. This is exactly the kind of learned discourse that really helps the community to grow.
[/sarcasm]

If I'm doing it worng, that suggests there's something very wrong with the game mechanics. There should never be a predfined set way to play in an mmo like this, there's even less excuse when the player is bombarded with so many skills. Seriously this is the worst game I've ever seen for excess skill baggage.

Rather than just spouting unhelpful, arrogant garbage, perhaps you could instead perhaps point out what rotatations in a prolonged fight might better handle resources?
Unfortunately the only guides that are availble are somewhat out of date.

GenXCub's Avatar


GenXCub
10.02.2012 , 11:23 AM | #8
Just for some clarification, there shouldn't be only one way to play a class, but there does have to be right and wrong ways to play a class. There needs to be a way to epic fail, otherwise there's no way to tell yourself that you figured out how to succeed.
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Narthil's Avatar


Narthil
10.02.2012 , 12:06 PM | #9
I find it amusing how the highest DPS class in the game is complaining.
"Don't give people what they want, give them what they need"

Karasuko's Avatar


Karasuko
10.02.2012 , 11:13 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Narthil View Post
I find it amusing how the highest DPS class in the game is complaining.
I don't think they bumped our dps by that much, we're second class citizens now instead of 3rd class.