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Here's Where We, The Community, Went Wrong

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Community Content
Here's Where We, The Community, Went Wrong

Addaib's Avatar


Addaib
10.02.2012 , 08:26 AM | #11
I mostly agree with the OP. I think though there is some room for legitimate complaint for people in the early days of this game. For many people, this was suppose to be a MMO that had the added bonus of your KOTOR and Dragon Age RPGS. The problem is those RPG elements really outshine the MMO. Now personally, I'm OK with that since I loved some of those former Bio-ware RPGs. If nothing else I just pretend that I'm renting KOTOR 3-10, that has the value added feature of online multi-player play.

But other people have a problem with that. To use a restaurant analogy, it would be like a pizza chain opens a new all you can eat salad bar. Because other salad bar only chains like Fresh Choice and Sweet Tomatoes business is really booming. So they open up this new line of business that has a large selection of different kinds of salad, soup, bread, pasta, plus you can get their "World Famous Pizza". And all the adds say how good it is, and even some famous food critics give the salad bar very solid reviews. However most of the new comers, that come find they don't really like the new business. They think the salad and other fixings are mediocre at best. While they like the pizza, the complain because they came to get their salad fix. In the end, the people that are happy are old time fans of the pizza place and pizza junkies......

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
10.02.2012 , 08:26 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by MilesTheFox View Post
Here are our most blatant errors regarding this game.
You're 100% wrong!!! WE...NONE of us...have made ANY errors. WE are not the programmers. WE are not the producers. WE are not coders. WE didn't rush anything. WE didn't make promises WE had no intention of keeping. WE are the CUSTOMER and WE have every right to demand a decent game for our $. When 4 of every 5 people who paid full price for this game, have QUIT it, it tells you it's just a BAD GAME. WE had nothing to do with that. WE gave them a shot, THEY blew it.

I've held up my end of the bargain and contributed with 3 copies of the game and 3 subscriptions, of which 2 have never lapsed. Don't EVER blame me!
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force

My referral code: here (what you get here)

anstalt's Avatar


anstalt
10.02.2012 , 08:28 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by MilesTheFox View Post
This is the first MMO of it's kind - story-heavy, fully-voiced content. That is what the majority of players liked the most in this game; the leveling and the story. Content like that is going to take more time to generate. And I certainly hope that's the kind of content that is consistently generated, because if not, F2P or not, this game will fall even further than it has in terms of sub count.
This game is not about having one character and getting better and better and better gear (that's actually what I detest most about MMO's). No, the Legacy system was built around re-rolling once you hit 50, to experience another story, and the Legacy system gave you options to have a small leg-up with a new character.
This is your view of the game, purely subjective, and not based on fact.

LOTRO has a better story line, more immersive stories and generally much better content to the storyline. So, it beats TOR for story-focus. TOR simply gives us the voice overs.

Also, saying that the story and leveling is why most people came here is also a fallacy. It may be why you came here, but you've no idea if its true or not. I would hazard a guess that 50%+ of the people who bought the box set did so purely because it is Star Wars and nothing else. Ofc, I can't back it up with facts, but no1 can.

Personally, I came here a) because its Star Wars and b) because the developers told us that PvE and PvP would have equal importance at endgame.

I'm a reasonably hardcore player, I have a high IQ but I'm not particularly tolerant. At 27 years of age, I've played a lot of game and generally get bored of content that isn't very good. As a consequence I flit between different activities in game. I raid a lot, but I get constantly frustrated at people making basic errors. I PvP a lot, but get bored due to repetitiveness. I like crafting, but crafting systems are usually terrible. I like leveling, but repeating quests sucks. My main activities are raiding and pvp. In all previous MMO's I played, one or the other was usually terrible.

For example, WAR had excellent PvP, but PvE was dire and so when I got bored of PvP, I logged off rather than switched activities. In LOTRO, the PvE was far superior to here, but there wasn't much of it and the pvp was crap, so when I completed the instances and raids, I'd log off. Same with all previous MMOs. Thats why SW:TOR appealed to me so much: equal importance of pvp and pve! Ofc, the truth is far from that: pvp is a tacked on mess in dire need of new content and has no relevance on the rest of the game.



the main thing I think we, as a community, did wrong was believe the hype. I admit, I get caught up in it. I believed them when they said the game was going to be excellent. I believed them when they said pvp would be equal to pve. I believed them when they said that leveling up would be a unique experience. I believed them when they said voice overs would revolutionise the MMO space.


I believed the developers. I believed the producers. I believed the community hype. I believed.......


But I was let down. The promises that Bioware and EA made were never fulfilled. I feel like I was lied to. I feel like the game I bought and pay for is not the game that was advertised. Due to this feeling, it has led me and many others like me to feel entitled.


Ofc im not entitled. I'm just one gamer amoungst millions, just another random opinion. Whilst I feel entitled and let down by Bioware, on the other hand Bioware can feel happy that their marketing department did a good job and got money from me that they wouldn't have gotten if I'd have known the truth of the game in advance.

One thing I do know as a fact is that the MMO market is heading for a revolution. Too many companies are pouring vast amounts of cash in to games that are actually aimed at niche markets, resulting in failed games. SW:TOR is a niche game: it caters for those that want to play KOTOR online and will thus never make vast sums of money.

The true WoW killer is still out there. To be a WoW killer, you must offer something for everyone. You must have epic raiding to please the hardcore raiders. You must have instanced and open world balanced pvp for the pvpers. you must have engaging story lines for the alt-o-holics. You must have unique class mechanics to encourage replay. You must have an excellent crafting economy. You must have fluff activities for the casuals. You must have sandbox features to reduce pressure on devs and encourage communities to work together. You must have everything!

If you start neglecting areas of your game, you will start losing sections of the community. Just like in real life, MMOs thrive on diverse communities. The smaller the community, the faster the decline. This, ultimately, is why TOR is not a WoW killer: it has neglected most areas of the game. The raiding is too easy / short lived. The pvp is without purpose or reason. The mechanics are too simple. The classes are too samey. The story lines are too dull. The one thing TOR got right was presentation of the story lines i.e. voice overs, but that alone is not enough to retain players.

/end epic rant (apologies )
Anstalt - lvl 50 valor 81 Shadow Consular

Currently retired due to poor design decisions within the game that have killed its longevity. Get rid of Hickman before he ruins the game completely!

tiennen's Avatar


tiennen
10.02.2012 , 08:30 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
You're 100% wrong!!! WE...NONE of us...have made ANY errors. WE are not the programmers. WE are not the producers. WE are not coders. WE didn't rush anything. WE didn't make promises WE had no intention of keeping. WE are the CUSTOMER and WE have every right to demand a decent game for our $. When 4 of every 5 people who paid full price for this game, have QUIT it, it tells you it's just a BAD GAME. WE had nothing to do with that. WE gave them a shot, THEY blew it.

I've held up my end of the bargain and contributed with 3 copies of the game and 3 subscriptions, of which 2 have never lapsed. Don't EVER blame me!
If you have such a low opinion of the game, why are you here?
The thread is about undeserved criticism of a GOOD game, spout your bile somewhere else.

Elfa's Avatar


Elfa
10.02.2012 , 08:30 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Ameepa View Post
WoW this, WoW that.. Anyone else getting tired of reading only about WoW on these forums? Everything isn't always just about WoW. Everyone hasn't even played that game or have quit years ago.

It's pretty simple. If people get bored, they complain. It doesn't have to have anything to do with WoW.
WoW is the number one MMO in history, it's the one most people have played and it's only normal that it would be used for a comparison model.
I'd like to sit down with the guy responsible for having Busta Rhymes fight Michael Myers in HALLOWEEN RESURRECTION. Then, before he could speak, I would slap him so hard his face would explode and his dog would die." - Jim Law

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
10.02.2012 , 08:31 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by BuddyRufus View Post
I agree and disagree. Bioware/EA played their part in trying to market and design it to be a WoW killer, true. However, everybody is responsible for their own belifefs and expectations. The hype for this game was astronomical - way out of proportion. The fans share responsibility in this.
Yeah, but when a company generates massive hype (and their videos are excellent at that) whilst fans have a role in swallowing it, it's not really their "fault" per se.



Quote:
I miss SWG too . But it's gone. Time to move forward. I doubt we'll see anything like it again and they aren't going to bring those elements here.
That's the problem though - SWG had good points that would IMPROVE SWTOR, there seems to be an idea that nothing from SWG can be copied in SWTOR, when the reality is a LOT can be copied (that's not the same thing as making SWTOR a SWG 2, not the same thing at all - anymore than WoW nicking WARs open groups and quest markers made it WAR 2).
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
10.02.2012 , 08:32 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by tiennen View Post
If you have such a low opinion of the game, why are you here?
The thread is about undeserved criticism of a GOOD game, spout your bile somewhere else.
You'd prefer I pack up and leave? Is that REALLY what you're suggesting? I'm realistic about the game and "I" will not take ANYONE blaming ME for the state the game is in. I pay to play the game, not be a cheerleader.
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force

My referral code: here (what you get here)

tiennen's Avatar


tiennen
10.02.2012 , 08:40 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
You'd prefer I pack up and leave? Is that REALLY what you're suggesting? I'm realistic about the game and "I" will not take ANYONE blaming ME for the state the game is in. I pay to play the game, not be a cheerleader.
He is not blaming you, specifically. He is blaming the community as a whole.

I am included, he is included, you are included. We are all to blame for our vehement hate of the game on the forums since release.

To say "I am innocent" and then in the same sentence bash the game is the epitome of hypocrisy.

MilesTheFox's Avatar


MilesTheFox
10.02.2012 , 08:43 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
You're 100% wrong!!! WE...NONE of us...have made ANY errors. WE are not the programmers. WE are not the producers. WE are not coders. WE didn't rush anything. WE didn't make promises WE had no intention of keeping. WE are the CUSTOMER and WE have every right to demand a decent game for our $. When 4 of every 5 people who paid full price for this game, have QUIT it, it tells you it's just a BAD GAME. WE had nothing to do with that. WE gave them a shot, THEY blew it.

I've held up my end of the bargain and contributed with 3 copies of the game and 3 subscriptions, of which 2 have never lapsed. Don't EVER blame me!
I will blame whomever I want in my OPINION, sir. Good day.
Miles - Jedi Guardian - Level 50
Nightfire - Sith Juggernaught - Level 50
Nonaka - Gunslinger - Level 50

Larity's Avatar


Larity
10.02.2012 , 08:46 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
You're 100% wrong!!! WE...NONE of us...have made ANY errors. WE are not the programmers. WE are not the producers. WE are not coders. WE didn't rush anything. WE didn't make promises WE had no intention of keeping. WE are the CUSTOMER and WE have every right to demand a decent game for our $. When 4 of every 5 people who paid full price for this game, have QUIT it, it tells you it's just a BAD GAME. WE had nothing to do with that. WE gave them a shot, THEY blew it.

I've held up my end of the bargain and contributed with 3 copies of the game and 3 subscriptions, of which 2 have never lapsed. Don't EVER blame me!
See, now I blame you for getting so upset over a little thing and you are ruining the community as a whole. Thanks man, you had to go and be so mad. Its just game, why you have to be mad?

And I agree with OP, no one should say anything about end game content....WHEN IT HASN'T BEEN A DANG YEAR!

Seriously, 1 week after games official release and people RUSHED to the end to complain. Bravo people.