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Here's Where We, The Community, Went Wrong

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Community Content
Here's Where We, The Community, Went Wrong

MilesTheFox's Avatar


MilesTheFox
10.02.2012 , 07:41 AM | #1
No, this isn't a thread about the doctors left because of us, EA is the devil, yada yada. No, this is just me getting out there where I believe we went wrong.

Here are our most blatant errors regarding this game.

Believing it would compete with World of Warcraft.
Yes, even I'll admit, I fantasized about TOR putting a dent in WoW's subscriber base. But when I came to my senses, it dawned on me that TOR cannot compete with a game that has had 8 years to build a very solid foundation. It's just not gonna happen. Countless MMO's have been claimed to be the 'WoW Killer'. Face it, the only thing that is going to kill WoW is WoW. In between Cataclysm and Pandaria, we saw more than 800,000 subscribers leave of their own accord. When WoW finally dies, it won't have anything to do with the competition.

A stellar RPG DOES NOT equal a stellar MMO.
It's obvious. The Old Republic got the budget it did because of the success of Knights of the Old Republic and because EA wanted a piece of the WoW pie (there's publishers for ya *grumble grumble). One of the most successful Star Wars games of all time, and the first Star Wars RPG. KOTOR is also home to what is widely considered to be the greatest plot twist in all of gaming.
Like it or not, you add in MMO elements, you ARE going to muck up what made the game great in the first place. It's a lesson the industry hasn't quite learned yet, but I hope it does soon, before every beloved franchise is bastardized in MMO form.
I am highly anticipating The Elder Scrolls Online having the EXACT same problems this game has.

We should not be allowed to complain about a lack of content for the entire first year.
I'm just gonna come out and say it. If you were one of the players that hit 50 in the first week, you shouldn't even be allowed to post on the forums, and if you complained about lack of an end game in that time frame, you should be permabanned with no second chances.
This is the first MMO of it's kind - story-heavy, fully-voiced content. That is what the majority of players liked the most in this game; the leveling and the story. Content like that is going to take more time to generate. And I certainly hope that's the kind of content that is consistently generated, because if not, F2P or not, this game will fall even further than it has in terms of sub count.
This game is not about having one character and getting better and better and better gear (that's actually what I detest most about MMO's). No, the Legacy system was built around re-rolling once you hit 50, to experience another story, and the Legacy system gave you options to have a small leg-up with a new character.

Well, there are my quick thoughts. Debate, add to it, flame, it's all good.
Miles - Jedi Guardian - Level 50
Nightfire - Sith Juggernaught - Level 50
Nonaka - Gunslinger - Level 50

Goretzu's Avatar


Goretzu
10.02.2012 , 08:00 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by MilesTheFox View Post
No, this isn't a thread about the doctors left because of us, EA is the devil, yada yada. No, this is just me getting out there where I believe we went wrong.

Here are our most blatant errors regarding this game.

Believing it would compete with World of Warcraft.
That was Bioware EA, not the fans fault, they were aiming squarely at it.

A bigger mistake though was so completely copying WoW. The should have copied the best stuff from at least SWG and DAoC/WAR too.

Quote:
I am highly anticipating The Elder Scrolls Online having the EXACT same problems this game has.
It will - especially if all it tries to be is The Elder World of Scrollcraft Online.

Quote:
We should not be allowed to complain about a lack of content for the entire first year.
I'm just gonna come out and say it. If you were one of the players that hit 50 in the first week, you shouldn't even be allowed to post on the forums, and if you complained about lack of an end game in that time frame, you should be permabanned with no second chances.
That's just plain silly. If they'd got RvR right things would have been much better, if they'd not released early (SWTOR shouldn't have been released till 1.2) things would also have been better. Again neither of those things were the fans fault, it was down to Bioware EA and EA higher-ups.

Quote:
This is the first MMO of it's kind - story-heavy, fully-voiced content. That is what the majority of players liked the most in this game; the leveling and the story. Content like that is going to take more time to generate. And I certainly hope that's the kind of content that is consistently generated, because if not, F2P or not, this game will fall even further than it has in terms of sub count.
They've already said class stories are on a way back burner because of this issue.

Quote:
This game is not about having one character and getting better and better and better gear (that's actually what I detest most about MMO's). No, the Legacy system was built around re-rolling once you hit 50, to experience another story, and the Legacy system gave you options to have a small leg-up with a new character.
Except they copied all the bits from WoW that ARE about getting 1 or 2 characters Uber.

I dunno why myself, again some of SWG good points would have added to alting a great deal.
Real Star Wars space combat please, not Star Wars Fox! Maybe some PvP and flight too?
Goretzu's Law: As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving "Entitled" approaches 1

tiennen's Avatar


tiennen
10.02.2012 , 08:01 AM | #3
The poison and bile that was spit out of many of our forum-goers early on in this game's life was, sadly, expected for me.

I think that many of them may have been on the forums in many other games, sptting their poison there before they left:

WAR
Rift
Aion
GW2 -- very recent

It has become common for forums to be crowded with people "unhappy" with their playing experience within a month of getting the game, and many of them are former WoW players who expected the game to be as polished as their beloved Panda-Land (not always the case, I started with WoW, but have never really complained about any other MMOs)

I believe it wasn't the "mediocrity" of this game that "ruined" it, it was the ignorant, entitled players themselves. This game is great. It is like KOTOR 3, with multiplayer. There are a lot of people that would argue with me, but it is my strong opinion that SW:TOR is one of the best MMO's out there right now, even surpassing WoW in qaulity of gameplay. (I went back to WoW for a couple days, it was boring and the gameplay was absolutely stale, questing made me want to gouge out my eyes)

NRN_Hawk's Avatar


NRN_Hawk
10.02.2012 , 08:04 AM | #4
You got some good points there, I went wrong because I thought it was mainly about class stories and not 101010010101 side quests as well.

And yeah I don't like the new set new set even newer set for one "endgame" toon either.
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Elfa's Avatar


Elfa
10.02.2012 , 08:12 AM | #5
OP, I think at least your heart is in the right place.
Quote: Originally Posted by Lunafox View Post
Calm down, I'd hardly call that whining. He just asked a question. Go have a coffee and calm down. Jeepers.
Lunafox nailed it. This is correct.

Ameepa's Avatar


Ameepa
10.02.2012 , 08:17 AM | #6
WoW this, WoW that.. Anyone else getting tired of reading only about WoW on these forums? Everything isn't always just about WoW. Everyone hasn't even played that game or have quit years ago.

It's pretty simple. If people get bored, they complain. It doesn't have to have anything to do with WoW.

Jacen_Starsolo's Avatar


Jacen_Starsolo
10.02.2012 , 08:21 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by NRN_Hawk View Post
You got some good points there, I went wrong because I thought it was mainly about class stories and not 101010010101 side quests as well.

And yeah I don't like the new set new set even newer set for one "endgame" toon either.
This. But I can also post this on the GW2 forums. GW2 at the beginning of creating a toon says "And this is my story" but yet the class stories are very few compared to the endless side quests. It's more of a gap in GW2 then here.

And I like GW2 but that "this is my story" thing is pure B to the S.

The days of heavy class stories in MMOs are over. The devs know it's easier to put out side quests with class stories sprinkled in.

tiennen's Avatar


tiennen
10.02.2012 , 08:22 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Ameepa View Post
WoW this, WoW that.. Anyone else getting tired of reading only about WoW on these forums? Everything isn't always just about WoW. Everyone hasn't even played that game or have quit years ago.

It's pretty simple. If people get bored, they complain. It doesn't have to have anything to do with WoW.

My point was that many of the people who were on these forums complaining about this game early on have been on the forums in OTHER games complaining about THEM early on. They play a new MMO when it first comes out, gobble up all the content, then spit it back into the Developer's faces with a "WAAAA ME WANT MORE" attitude that cannot ever be satisfied. They then proceed to bash on the game for the foreseeable future, until a new game comes along to grab their short attention span, and the process repeats itself.

There are a LOT of players like that, and many don't even realize that they are doing it.

Jacen_Starsolo's Avatar


Jacen_Starsolo
10.02.2012 , 08:23 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Ameepa View Post
WoW this, WoW that.. Anyone else getting tired of reading only about WoW on these forums? Everything isn't always just about WoW. Everyone hasn't even played that game or have quit years ago.

It's pretty simple. If people get bored, they complain. It doesn't have to have anything to do with WoW.
Agree. I even posted something about the whole WoW reference in another thread this morning. People act like WoW wasn't a clone itself.

BuddyRufus's Avatar


BuddyRufus
10.02.2012 , 08:24 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
That was Bioware EA, not the fans fault, they were aiming squarely at it.
I agree and disagree. Bioware/EA played their part in trying to market and design it to be a WoW killer, true. However, everybody is responsible for their own belifefs and expectations. The hype for this game was astronomical - way out of proportion. The fans share responsibility in this.

Quote: Originally Posted by Goretzu View Post
I dunno why myself, again some of SWG good points would have added to alting a great deal.
I miss SWG too . But it's gone. Time to move forward. I doubt we'll see anything like it again and they aren't going to bring those elements here.
Death Before Dishonour