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no more black hole comms in story EC?

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Alduinsm's Avatar


Alduinsm
09.28.2012 , 05:23 PM | #121
From what i've experienced when EC came out,my guild had a hard time doing story mode on our 2-3 first weeks,after that it became much easier. EC is nerted a lots so i think columi is totally good for the SM.
To someone who said TFB is not possible with columi gear: give it time. the op is new and people are still getting used to the mechanic. Once they understand the mechanic,the fight will be a lots easier.
Shin

Fortunefive's Avatar


Fortunefive
09.28.2012 , 06:05 PM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by AllisonBerryman View Post
I asked Ahmad Zabarah (a Senior Designer) to share some more details about this change. The reason we removed the Commendations from Story Mode is that it is our goal to separate Story Mode Operations from Operation progression going forwards. In the previous setup, Story Mode was the best way to farm Black Hole Commendations, which wasn't our intent for the different difficultly modes. Going forward, Hard Mode and Nightmare mode will be the source of progression in Operations. We did, however, add Black Hole Commendations to the weekly Explosive Conflict mission, so you can also obtain the Commendations that way.
basically TL;DR we nerfed SM EC's BH coms by 20, but gave you 8 or so for doing the weekly, grats.

and no the best way to farm black hole coms would to do everything you can in one week to get black hole coms.
7 random GF dungeons, 2 "random" operations, the Black Hole dailys at least once per week, and the rakghoul weekly, and Nightmare KP, and last but not least, doing SM/HM EC and the weekly associated with it which equaled to the ballpark of around 120 coms per week. Now that NIM Kp and SM ec don't drop them, and the chests in EC HM don't drop them, that is a significant nerf, I liked being able to gear up my alts and such, guess I'm boned now.

On top of that how do you define "progression" because I think it varies from guild to guild to developer, not everyone is currently working on the HM of the new operation. Many people will still feel that the natural order of progression would be to gear up at least columi - then to rakata- then ..... You know what, I don't care, you guys messed up by having a billion "tiers" of gear right off the bat. Regardless of your " intentions " people wont mess around with SM EC any more, unless they still working on their natural gear progression to get into TFB HM, I didnt mind doing it before to get alts some quick cheap gear, but I don't see myself going back in there ever again, so grats on that.

PennyAnn's Avatar


PennyAnn
09.28.2012 , 07:55 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
Let me explain it again:
1) Get to lvl 50
2) Do regular lvl 50 FP's to get some better than starting lvl 50 gear
3) Do HM FP's to get Columi gear. You don't want to do HM FP's, then do SM EV/KP to get Columi,
4) Do HM EV/KP to get Rakata. Or you can do SM EC/TFB (Please notice in the patch 1.4 notes that SM EC was really nerfed).
5) Do HM EC/TFB.

So, you can get from 1 --> 5 without doing a single story mode. Got it?
It makes NO SENSE to remove BH comms from NiM KP. So let me get this straight, if I PUG it through the group finder, I can get BH comms for running SM KP, but not NiM KP with a group of my own choosing? How does that make any sense?

Want real progression?
EV/KP SMs available in the group finder for Columi gear rewards and Daily Comms.
(Keep HM FPs as they are, and reward putting up with PUGs with a few BH comms at the end, as currently happens).

HM KP & EV and NiMs should have lockouts separated, all available in the group finder for the BH Comms that SM rewards right now. Both drop Rakata gear and additionally, in NiM, all bosses drop a couple BH comms.

Then you can run SM EC and SM TfB if you want to learn the fights and mechanics with a quick run (since you would be "over geared" in Rakata, this should mean you can clear either OP in an hour or less). This is valuable also to learn these OPs in a different role, or with a different mix of roles (which makes it worth having around for more than just one run in some cases). Also, everybody gets to see the end-game content even if they aren't in a hard core raiding guild.

Once you have the mechanics down, then you run HM EC and TfB for BH gear, which should drop more frequently, and campaign gear/dread guard gear definitely should since everyone in the raid is competing for that one single token. I won't even start on a discussion of having to purchase multiple pieces of BH gear in order to have decent mods for your class and how long that takes. And yes, I understand that it is my choice to not over-stack Alacrity, but I think that's been just about everybody's choice given how frequently I hear people talking about pulling mods out of BH to maximize the stats on their gear.

Anyway, to be able to run SM in group finder for BH comms but not HM or NiM is silly. I also agree that this isn't really "farming" since you can only do this once a week for a whopping total of 10 BH comms if you run both... but whatever.

WobblyBits_X's Avatar


WobblyBits_X
09.28.2012 , 09:51 PM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by PennyAnn View Post
It makes NO SENSE to remove BH comms from NiM KP. So let me get this straight, if I PUG it through the group finder, I can get BH comms for running SM KP, but not NiM KP with a group of my own choosing? How does that make any sense?

Want real progression?
EV/KP SMs available in the group finder for Columi gear rewards and Daily Comms.
(Keep HM FPs as they are, and reward putting up with PUGs with a few BH comms at the end, as currently happens).

HM KP & EV and NiMs should have lockouts separated, all available in the group finder for the BH Comms that SM rewards right now. Both drop Rakata gear and additionally, in NiM, all bosses drop a couple BH comms.

Then you can run SM EC and SM TfB if you want to learn the fights and mechanics with a quick run (since you would be "over geared" in Rakata, this should mean you can clear either OP in an hour or less). This is valuable also to learn these OPs in a different role, or with a different mix of roles (which makes it worth having around for more than just one run in some cases). Also, everybody gets to see the end-game content even if they aren't in a hard core raiding guild.

Once you have the mechanics down, then you run HM EC and TfB for BH gear, which should drop more frequently, and campaign gear/dread guard gear definitely should since everyone in the raid is competing for that one single token. I won't even start on a discussion of having to purchase multiple pieces of BH gear in order to have decent mods for your class and how long that takes. And yes, I understand that it is my choice to not over-stack Alacrity, but I think that's been just about everybody's choice given how frequently I hear people talking about pulling mods out of BH to maximize the stats on their gear.

Anyway, to be able to run SM in group finder for BH comms but not HM or NiM is silly. I also agree that this isn't really "farming" since you can only do this once a week for a whopping total of 10 BH comms if you run both... but whatever.
nice post tbh...

i mostly agree, though i dont think NM EV is hard enough to justify any BH comms reward per boss, but maybe as a reward for completion.
i can see why the comms were removed from the chests in EC SM and kinda agree that the SM is there (supposedly) to learn tactics for HM. farming BH comms from EC SM meant the only reason u really had to do EC HM was for mainhand and offhand gear.

on a side note, i think there should be a title gained in KP for operating the puzzle and successfully killing the fabricator. as it is, too many people queue up for KP SM who dont know how to use it and make it a hideous operation to pug.
having a title specifically for knowing the puzzle would give people an incentive to actually learn how to do it.
something along the lines of The Builder for SM and The Architect for HM/NM?

i saw a couple posts saying that EC SM rewards the same gear required to run it.
this is completely false. EC SM is completely doable with a full columi geared team as long as they are somewhat competent. TfB SM is doable with columi+ and should be easy in rakata+.
Defeating a Sandwich only makes it Tastier

PlaceAdHere's Avatar


PlaceAdHere
09.28.2012 , 10:49 PM | #125
I understand where bioware is coming from by expecting SM to be where everyone can experience the content and HM where you go to gear up and progress skill-wise. But what I do not understand is why the new implants cost so much, the gear is so poorly itemized, and bioware has even stated that they wanted to keep the gear itemized so that it is not all BiS right away because they wanted the best players to grind to make it BiS. They say this but then make the grind even harder. If you want us to grind for BiS that is fine, but allow us to actually grind for it. The appeal of this game is all the class quests so the leveling in encouraged, that means players want to get multiple classes to 50 and raid on them or to be able to use one class in multiple specs. This means we need a LOT of ways to itemize BiS. If you answer is by making it even more challenging then something needs to be done with the gear so that it is more feasible.
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JediNg's Avatar


JediNg
09.29.2012 , 04:27 AM | #126
Least they could have done was add comms to story TFB if they made SM EC easier and removed BH comms from SM EC. 'Cuz now the potential BH Comms 'income' is even less than before 1.4 (just guesstimating)
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moonshoter's Avatar


moonshoter
09.29.2012 , 06:10 AM | #127
I wonder if any of the DEV read the forums and the only way they really see things is from the Admin at the forums ... IF they did come here and read this Post maybe they would admit they were wrong and will look at a way to give us more BH Comms intead of tell us TFB was suppose to give us that Egde to get gear faster etc ... And Maybe just Maybe they are looking at better ways of giving us more BH comms and if they are , they really should let us know and not make us make a post with a lot a of negative feed back ....


And this fall will fall on Death ears they really Don't care and i feel they are just making some kind of quota so they can get there bonus and srew the player base .


Patchb notes reflect it now :


Operations

General
•[WEEKLY] Deadly Operations now awards 30 Daily Commendations.
•[WEEKLY] Galactic Operations now awards 10 Daily Commendations and 8 Black Hole Commendations.
•[WEEKLY] Galactic Crisis Points now awards 10 Daily Commendations and 8 Black Hole Commendations.





•Storymode Operation bosses will no longer drop Black Hole Commendations.


But Nothing about



NIM KP ........

Metalmac's Avatar


Metalmac
09.29.2012 , 06:59 AM | #128
Quote: Originally Posted by yoshua View Post

Right now, neither of that happens, so progression is broken. I find it funny that you made an entire post and didnt realize this. So now that we are all laughing can we get back on topic on how progression is currently broken and we would like someone from Bioware to explain what they believe the current progression is?

Doing dailies for 3 months to get black hole gear to progress in raids is not progression.

Yea seems someone at BioWare is really clueless on how progression works in this game.

moonshoter's Avatar


moonshoter
09.29.2012 , 07:49 AM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by Metalmac View Post
Yea seems someone at BioWare is really clueless on how progression works in this game.

Answer is even thu they say they do or are ...They don't play games online games some of them do but the way the game is run most dont they just code and give us what they think we should get and have no clue ...


Take WoW i read someplace in oder to work for them you have to play games .
and it shows there

PennyAnn's Avatar


PennyAnn
09.29.2012 , 12:31 PM | #130
Quote: Originally Posted by WobblyBits_X View Post
nice post tbh...

i mostly agree, though i dont think NM EV is hard enough to justify any BH comms reward per boss, but maybe as a reward for completion.
i can see why the comms were removed from the chests in EC SM and kinda agree that the SM is there (supposedly) to learn tactics for HM. farming BH comms from EC SM meant the only reason u really had to do EC HM was for mainhand and offhand gear.

on a side note, i think there should be a title gained in KP for operating the puzzle and successfully killing the fabricator. as it is, too many people queue up for KP SM who dont know how to use it and make it a hideous operation to pug.
having a title specifically for knowing the puzzle would give people an incentive to actually learn how to do it.
something along the lines of The Builder for SM and The Architect for HM/NM?

i saw a couple posts saying that EC SM rewards the same gear required to run it.
this is completely false. EC SM is completely doable with a full columi geared team as long as they are somewhat competent. TfB SM is doable with columi+ and should be easy in rakata+.
Thanks! I take your point about KP NiM not dropping BH comms on bosses, only on completion.. But there has to be some logic to the progression in this game and the way BH comms are awarded, and right now there is not.

I don't agree that you could "farm" them from EC SM. You could only do this OP once per week and it didn't drop so many BH comms that you could buy tons of gear. The only BH gear that dropped was from the final boss, and having run that OP weekly for a long time now it has only happened to our guild three times. Ever. So it wasn't really a great way to "farm" for anything. It was (and will continue to be) a good way to get Rakata gear and test new roles for people who are playing different builds or classes.

If left the way it is now, EC SM and NiM KP just became as useless to run as NiM EV (once you have the title). They should want to make the end game content award things that make you WANT to run it weekly, instead they are making it obsolete.